Telling women to dress more modestly because reasons is indeed slut-shaming.
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Oh. You think âslut shamingâ is something that is done to sluts.
Itâs something that is done to women and girls, to make them feel bad about themselves, by suggesting that something they say or do makes them âslutsâ.
Does that clear things up for you?
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âTelling women to dress more modestly because reasons is indeed slut-shaming.â
No. It isnât. And you support that ânoâ by not conducting your life naked, yourself, all the time, even when the weather would allow it. If advising modesty is the same as slut-shaming, then teaching your kids not to say âcuntâ in front of Grandma is the same as marching up and down a public sidewalk with a placard that says âPeople who use profanity will rot in hell for eternity!!!â There are also different standards for âmodestyâ of clothing in different cultures and countries, and itâs not logical to assume that adherence to those standards automatically implies the denigration of those who donât. In fact, such an attitude is offensive and intolerant. I donât go to work naked. I would freely advise not going to work naked (for most people). Iâd be pissed off if anyone interpreted that as my saying naked people are sluts.
So: your claim is you know what slut shaming is, which would imply you understand it includes behaviors such as making a woman or girl feel guilty or inferior for dressing in sexually provocative ways. And you can see where the book says that for a woman to wear clothing that accents her body is defrauding, because that stirs up sensual desires, and thatâs something we donât want to do because it is against the Bible. But you insist the one is not an example of the other, and the other posters trying to explain this very simple conclusion to you must simply be making knee-jerk attacks or failing to understand you.
Look, everyone, I understand that Socrates was a man, you donât have to explain it to me. What I donât get is why you think Socrates was mortal. Iâm looking at the book that says all men are mortal, and it never mentions him! I donât know why everyone is missing the obvious point except me.
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okay, i am preparing to be falcor lunch.
i think booting Theodore_ElP is worse than letting Theodore_ElP continue in the conversation.
(@falcor i know for a fact i am quite tasty. my dog and my cats have confirmed this fact)
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If it had been an actual conversation rather than a trolly pedantifest, then sure. Otherwise, the cooling-off 1 week ban seems appropriate.
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I kinda disagree, and I think there was a chance for changing minds. But as I have mentioned in other places, my success rate for changing minds is less than 5%.
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Right ho good sir!!
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I really wish people would out and say they were social conservatives and thus hold sympathies (rational or not) for the targets of our ire versus this utterly worthless tone trolling. At least we could find some ground to discuss. It would require sincerity, so no wonder it rarely enters these topics. They tend to self-select against self-awareness. Thus we get sophists and tongue-cluckers who find our our opinions on rape culture intolerable.
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Tongue cluckers can have theirs minds changed. The 16 years of gentle but consistent feedback and discussions Iâve had with my family in law absolutely has changed minds.
It takes time, empathy, and engagement. And it is tiring. And it usually doesnât work.
But I view it like compound interest. You get 5% a year, and soon you hit critical mass.
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This also takes some personal connection or presence. I donât fault anyone for attempting, but if the tone trollies are just going to ignore the article and repeat themselves while chastising the rest of the posters, it grates.
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And I respect that. Perhaps a new flag for posts should be introduced, âJaphroaig, go in there and get 'er doneâ 
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There is a huge difference between naked and dressing in a way that is comfortable, whatever that is. There are plenty of other reasons not to be naked in the world that have nothing to do with sexuality. Comfort, protection from the elements, etc.
as for yelling cunt at grandma⌠I donât think that using the appropriate language in the appropriate situation is the same thing as telling young women that men are too weak to handle a bare shoulder, knee, or a little cleavage. FFS, why are women responsible for menâs behavior.
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Maybe itâs this: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/phoenixandolivebranch/2012/04/emotional-incest-the-junior-wife/ ?
A series of posts on The Phoenix and Olive Branch at Patheos about how a lot of this purity stuff and servitude and submission to the patriarch amounts to emotionally incestuous relationships.
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Emotional Incest? Iâve never heard the term.
And now I suppose that I wish I hadnât.
These Patheos posts are interesting, though how much currency does it have in the outside world?
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I donât know how widely used the term âEmotional Incestâ is.
From itâs construction and by the way itâs defined in those blogs on Patheos, Emotional Incest, to me seems like a perfect term for the phenomenon.
Much like how plain old incest is sexual abuse of oneâs own child (or more broadly with a relative), emotional incest specifies that the relationship dynamic is inappropriate and unhealthy. Itâs the adult relying on the child for companionship, or as a confidante, and the child being conditioned to take responsibility for their parentâs emotional well-being.
Emotional Co-dependency would probably work well as a term for whatâs going on as well, although co-dependency is better characterized as one party defining their self-worth and emotional well-being by the fact that theyâre supporting and taking care of someone else who doesnât appropriately reciprocate the effort. In a lot of cases what would be co-dependency by strict definition isnât actually co-dependency in practice. For instance a healthy parent-child relationship isnât co-dependent even though the parent is focused on supporting and caring for their child, while the child doesnât necessarily reciprocate. It only really becomes co-dependent when the level of support and emotional neediness of the parent starts to over-compensate the childâs own abilities.
So, like, rough example (I know thereâs nuance, but just for the sake of illustration, please bear with me): Breastfeeding a six month old infant isnât co-dependent behavior, but breastfeeding a six year old child probably is, because often the practice is enforced by the mother, and the child isnât allowed to develop independence and self-care but instead is taught to rely upon the mother for everything, while the mother is emotionally gratified by the intimacy.
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There was no chance of changing minds, because olâ Theodore wasnât arguing in good faith. âSheâ was quite wilfully ignoring the common definition of slut shaming to keep the pedantic argument going strong.
Any way⌠Duggars bad, luckdragons good!
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Hmm?
The crime of cohabitation or sexual commerce between persons
related within the degrees wherein marriage is prohibited by
law. --Shak.
It need not involve parent and child, and assuming that both actors are adults, need not be abuse.
Aside from that point, the implicit (and now explicit) connection between emotional âincestâ and âplain oldâ incest should be proven before one stretches the analogy too thin.
I was using the term in the context of a parent-child relationship, and even took a little effort to qualify that definitionâŚ
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