That list is very telling, but not in the way Forbes thinks it is.
Only four on the list are Americans. Three are in for the same reason as Holmes- they robbed other rich people. The fourth was the spoiled son of a billionaire who was violent so technically he was a billionaire and thus on the list.
That list says “America really doesn’t put away billionaires for anything they should be put away for”. Forbes thinks it says, “See? They get put away just like normal people!”.
Federal charges do typically have a very high conviction rate but Trump is obviously not a typical defendant. He’s extremely wealthy and well-connected, and a huge portion of the American public thinks he’s some kind of Messiah. And let’s not forget the home-court advantage he’ll have if he goes to trial with a jury of Floridians.
Cautious optimism is appropriate but we can’t afford to count this chicken until he’s in the coop.
Especially since he’ll apparently have Aileen Cannon running interference for him once again.
I get it that Debbs is often cited as precedent, but it should really not be considered bedrock. Debbs’ prosecutions was very specifically political and bullshit. Applying it across the board neglects that, and inappropriately limits appropriate limitations on eligibility for office.
from another thread:
“It’s now known that the judge will be Aileen Cannon
There’s also the fact that Debs was NOT a Repub or A Dem; he was a socialist, and he never a had a real chance of winning from the start… that’s probably why they still let him run.
I really hate all this melee, especially with the doomer commentary it inevitably invites. Personally, I have no patience for anyone who has already given up and laid down in surrender before the fight is even over.
There is an amazing dystopian disconnect over in Republican circles and on Twitter. Those people really truly live in a bubble of misinformation and lies. Trump can do no wrong. Everything is a witchunt and meanwhile Joe Biden is an evil puppet master orchestrating trumps persecution and getting away with everything evil himself. There’s no point where this idiots will give up on their fantasies. I seriously think trump would still win like 40 percent of the popular vote even if he was sitting in jail because that many Americans are that completely delusional. So what’s the answer? the rest of us have to stand firm and do everything in our power to not let republicans in office. Period. If trump somehow got elected he would pardon himself and everyone implicit in his schemes.
The motivation behind his prosecution is irrelevant to his eligibility to run. Hell, if the government was going to declare anyone ineligible to run for office at that time, it would have been Debs. They took his right to vote away.
Like it or not, the minimum eligibility requirements for President, Senator, and Representative are set by the Constitution, and courts have long held that Congress cannot impose additional eligibility requirements, including that one not have been convicted of a felony. Additional eligibility requirements have been added by Constitutional Amendment. The 22nd Amendment imposed a term limit on the President, but not on Congress. (side note: people are always talking about Congressional term limits…that would require a Constitutional Amendment, just like imposing a term limit on the President did…in the current political climate, it ain’t happening). The 14th Amendment imposes a limitation that anyone involved in sedition or rebellion cannot hold office. That was originally intended to apply to Confederates, but the wording doesn’t limit it to that. I believe that was the basis for Cuoy Griffin being removed from office and barred from future elections, but I am not sure how often it has ever been invoked. It seems like it could have been invoked for Debs and I’m not sure why it wasn’t. As far as Trump goes, while one of the charges at least may involve the Espionage Act, the Espionage Act itself cannot prevent Trump from running for President. Depending on the specific charge (i.e. if it’s sedition…and I don’t think it is) the 14th Amendment could be invoked to prevent him from running. Let’s say he is charged with sedition, and convicted, and then he tries to run anyway. What happens then is a lawsuit to prevent him, based on the 14th Amendment. And this is an issue that I don’t think SCOTUS has ever taken up before, and they’re pretty all over the place right now.
I never said that he couldn’t run.
No one here did, from what I can see.
I replied to the wrong person. I meant that in reply to @DukeTrout . Sorry. Not sure how I did that.
Duke has been making the case that he thinks a conviction under the Espionage Act would disqualify Trump from being able to run. I’m not being gloom and doom. Jesus, I wish it would make him ineligible. But that’s not true. Now, will running from prison, if he’s given prison time, make it harder on him? Yeah, I think so. I don’t think he’s going to beat Biden anyway, even if he’s not convicted. And hell, maybe a conviction will finally give the GOP leadership the excuse they seem to think they need to abandon Trump.
I’m still waiting for Georgia. I want to see him tried for his coup. He’ll probably still run. I want to see the party self-immolate and I hope he takes a handful of his cultists down with him.
So… I’m not hopeless. I just think he’ll run and nothing can really stop him. What, the GOP? Look at them! Just… look at them.
Apologies if you felt somehow singled out by my comment, but frankly this isn’t about your or how you may feel.
Trans people, BIPOC and everyone else who is directly imperiled right now simply have no bandwidth for all the hand wringing and lamentation; we cant afford to be demoralized…
Yeah, I’m one of those trans people. I’m not trying to demoralize anyone. Apologies if I came across that way.
Now we have this, a Representative that sits on the homeland security committee is calling for his peeps to be ready.
In what world is he allowed to remain on any security committee? Oh I know, our current world.
This person decodes it.
I think there’s an argument to be made that he could not serve as President if convicted under the Espionage Act and subsequently, hypothetically, won. It’s not a slam-dunk, as you’ve pointed out, but we all know the Constitution doesn’t cover all eventualities; the Espionage Act at least forms a legal framework for an argument, and if his violations of the Espionage Act are severe enough (for example, if he sold secrets for money or other benefits with a foreign power), then the court might be open to enforcing those limitations as a case so severe as to not be specifically covered under Article II.
Update: two key members of Trump’s legal team just quit (or were fired depending on who you believe).
I have little doubt they will soon be replaced with attorneys who are more adept at telling Trump things he wants to hear instead of things he needs to know.
Frankly speaking, you do often sound as if you think all hope is already lost.
If that’s coming from a place of existential fear, then you have my genuine sympathy.
Still, I gotta tell ya: it doesn’t help anyone.
I don’t ‘go gentle,’ and I don’t encourage anybody else to either.
I rage, until my very last.
