I meant analogy, not apology. Auto-correct! Your analogy is faulty.
The Palm Springs school in question being Mavericks High School.
Palm Springs is a place, not a school.
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Mavericks High School is in Palm Springs. The writer didnât want to repeat the name of the school in the same sentence.
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Are you analogizing?
Consent is, by nature, mutual. I think itâs an absolute thing, which is why I rage over articles like this. On the one hand, there are cases like you describe where a party claims that it wasnât consensual, and nobody cares. On the other, cases like this where both participants say it was consensual, but others disagree. I see them as symptoms of the same problem, which is that law and popular culture place limits on consent in attempts to explain it away.
Thanks for the clarification!
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I know this particular case is very grey, and I donât think the 18 year old should get into any trouble because of it. However, she WAS the studentâs principal and she SHOULD KNOW BETTER. She is a 45 year old woman. Sheâs the fucking principal, which is a super important and highly professional job. This is egregious. She should be fired.
This is where I think the double-standard comes into play, though. People just arenât going to give as many shits because she is a woman and the student is male. It shouldnât matter.
BTW, itâs not so much that âno one caresâ that the woman in the article I linked claims she was sexually harassed, itâs that they actively think she is lying which leads to obviously harmful actions against the victim.
This happens to young boys and men a lot, btw. Do you think this young man would feel comfortable coming forward if he did believe he was sexually assaulted? Likely not, because of the way our society views young boys/men and their sexuality. He may very well feel too ashamed to come forward and that is SUPER important to remember. There is a reason why so many boys and men do not report their own sexual assaults and rapes. This is important to remember!
I mean, in our society, a woman can have blatant proof and still be thought a liar. And young boys and men are thought to always be horny and ready for a woman, no matter what, and surely they can never say no.
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Hereâs the thingâŚreverse the genders and the story takes on an entirely different context and most people would not hesitate to crucify the man for coercion, soliciting, or even sexual assault. There is definitely a double standard present in these situations.
There are more and more of these teachers/student inappropriate relationship stories coming to light these days and this one is in a bit of a gray area due to the studentâs age but she is still in a position of trust and should be prosecuted, suspended/fired for violating that trust regardless of the studentâs age.
I just donât understand the women who commit these acts and the desire to pursue a sexual relationship with students that they KNOW are inappropriate and likely to get caught. What is the rational and logic that is going thru their heads as they are doing this?
Growing up I had always heard rumors about male teachers and attempts at inappropriate relationships with female students (thanks Sting!) but unless they are not being reported anymore, I am not seeing many stories about male teachers. It seems that they are almost always female teacher/male student now.
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Only if viewed from a sexist perspective. Iâd go so far as to say people should apply this test to anything and everything to uncover their own biases.
Debatably. Peopleâs ease in assuming/believing that some people have more or less power than others I think is what creates such problems in the first place. Itâs a systemic problem that ruins far more lives than a handful of poorly considered sexual exploits. But even though I have doubts about the interpersonal ethical impropriety many assume here, I donât doubt that her employment was contingent upon not screwing people of her own school. So she should be fired for not keeping to this agreement.
School employees canât have sex with students. We are told this right from the start, so we can decide if weâd rather work in a school or have sex with teenagers. Itâs not some secret board of ed policy they pulled out of the bottom of a file drawer in the basement. Teachers canât have sex with students. Itâs not a high bar.
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Um, noâŚwhen viewed from a reality perspective. There are far too many previous examples that set precedence to establish a clear double standard when gender roles are involved.
Sheâs a principal and heâs a student. Pretty obvious power structure there. I donât understand how you can claim this is âdebatableâ
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If you read my other comments, I had interpreted the article as saying that they were principal and student of different schools.
For example, if one person in a couple is a professor at one school, and the other then becomes a student of a different, unaffiliated school - this does not seem to suggest that it affects the ethics of their respective school involvements.
But, as several people explained, they were part of the same school, despite the article having phrased this unclearly.
Isnât âclear double standard when gender roles are involvedâ more or less precisely how sexism is usually defined? I donât understand how you seem to be saying simultaneously âyes, this happensâ and âno, this isnât sexismâ. Anyway, it is a rather objectionable perspective for some who do not internalize sexist perspectives as having validity.
Itâs because when a male teacher is busted, itâs only local news. People expect to hear about those stories, so it wonât really grab headlines, and so the major national papers just leave it alone.
A few years back the band teacher at my high school (a suburb of Chicago) got busted for having sex with students. The news from what I recall made it all the way to the Chicago papers, but no farther.
Bonus: A couple of very flippant and profane female friends of mine who had him for band were quoted as, âWe donât care that he had sex with students. weâre just mad he never tried to have sex with us!â
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That for me is the main (and possibly only) inappropriate behavior here. Thereâs a conflict of interest. Same thing with sleeping with a subordinate, it can lead to questions of favoritism. As an example, I think it would be unethical for a university professor to sleep with an adult student, even if they were the same age. I wouldnât say itâs an egregious transgression, certainly not even in the same league as sleeping with a minor, but it is crossing an unprofessional line. At the very least she should be reprimanded, but she will probably be fired and all I can say is that she made her choice to jeopardize her career when she decided to do something she should have known was unethical.
I actually think the age gap is what most people will balk at, and I find it really problematical. Yes, a 45 year-old has life experiences that convey an advantage over an 18 year-old, and that does make it creepy for 45 year-olds to be hooking up with 18 year-olds. I donât believe creepy should ever be the basis for official reprimand - the age of consent (majority) should be set and adhered to, or it becomes a tool of public opprobrium, not justice - but I still think itâs creepy. But the attitude that a large age gap is itself immoral is troubling. To be clear, Iâm not saying you do or donât think that (I donât know), but I suspect she is going to get a lot of harassment because of the age gap, less so that he was her student. Again, I base that on the fact that I donât think she would likely get nearly the grief she will if she were a college prof sleeping with an adult student.
By way to disclosure, Iâm married to a woman 11 years older than I and, though I am no longer a young man, I am troubled by societal norms that cast mere age difference as inappropriate. Itâs true this means I canât claim to be fully objective (who can though), but my lived experience informs my worldview, as everyoneâs does.
In principle I see where youâre coming from with that. But in practice, an adult man holds a hell of a lot more power imbalance over a female student than an adult woman holds over a male student. Yes, it is a double-standard, but one not entirely without a rational basis, IMHO. I agree that this case is a very grey area.
Adding this just so Iâm clear. Iâm not saying the reversed genders make it okay, only that the different power imbalance can make a difference in the possible victimâs degree of powerlessness.
The thing is that most of the people who think young men are always horny are men who can clearly recall going through puberty. Itâs true that the stereotype isnât entirely accurate - obviously some boys and men arenât wired to be attracted to women at all, and even those that are arenât attracted to all women all the time. But, and this may well be my own prejudices clouding my perspective, I do find it vastly more likely (albeit not absolutely certain) that this young man was a willing participant than that he was pressured against his will. That doesnât change the inappropriateness of her sleeping with her student.
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Huh. The only issue under debate here is the sex part. From the legal perspective, Iâm guessing the student was of the age of consent, but isnât marijuana still illegal in Florida?
The principal probably was his counselor!
The were in the car making babies, and I saw one of the babies, and then the baby looked at me.
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Debates over power balance and whether marijuana is legal or not there aside.
I anyone else concerned about the implications of them sitting in the car with the marijuana?
I mean, theyâre not in a building, theyâre parked somewhere in the car. Implying at least one of them is planning to drive it somewhere afterwards.
And itâs an enclosed space with a âsocialâ atmosphere, itâs fair to say itâs not meant for just one of them or the other was at least inhaling copious amounts second hand.
As I remember. While in some ways marijuana is better for you than other smoke-able products like cigarettes. Being stoned on marijuana has similar impairment effects as alcohol.
So at the very least, this is as irresponsible as both of them drinking without having a designated driver to get them home.
âBeing stoned on marijuana has similar impairment effects as alcohol.â
Not trying to defend impaired driving here, but, no, not at all.
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