Former aide at today's pop-up hearing says Trump knew rally-goers had weapons, told them to march to Capitol

I’m not saying the hearing is pointless or worthless or anything of that notion. I , as a matter of fact in the other thread, listed out reasons why he’s losing and why it’s going to fall apart for him. His own people are turning against him, and that’s happening now.

That said, no, hearings 2 years before the election won’t be cognizant in people’s minds, especially not in the minds of his truly devout followers. He was impeached before the last election (but not convicted) on two counts and even THAT wasn’t a close enough time frame event to the election to have a statistical impact.

If you really want to upset an election, you drop the October surprise IN October.

And I’m saying that my suspicion is based on how this is going, they definitely have enough to do that if they want to.

Which is why it’s moronic to wait to indict him (and his enablers in Congress). Dems need to gain seats in the Senate and at least hold the House in order to remove the filibuster and pack the court. Ideally, they need to invoke 14Asec3 on some sitting senators to pass the voting rights acts before the midterms. Disqualify some of the seditious shits while they are in the middle of a campaign.

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So many laws broken, so little time to prosecute.

It’s almost like they have a total disregard for the rule of law. /s

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Thanks for the extra detail.

Could i trade that for some peppermint?

Peppermint Patty Win GIF by Apple TV+

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It’s really ironic that we’ve basically come full circle back to Mad King George; a king can’t be prosecuted, an supposedly, they hated having a monarchy… so one really has to wonder* why the “founders” didn’t codify it into law that presidents, sitting or otherwise, can be prosecuted if they commit crimes.

*Not really; the answer is almost always White Male Supremacy.

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Look at the case like a RICO case going after a crime syndicate. They don’t go right for the top. They chew away at the underlings, and get them to flip. That’s happening here, despite people’s pessimism and seeming ability to want to let him get away with it for… I don’t know why.

His lawyer had his phone seized and ALL his correspondence about the coup was on it. And I bet they’re trying to argue that the lawyer was a co-conspirator, so that would mean that attorney client priv does not apply.

Yes. It’s moving slowly. It always does. But it is happening. Federal prosecutors have a 95%+ conviction rate SIMPLY because by the time you get indicted, you’re going to jail. It’s ironclad. An indictment without evidence is far less impactful than one WITH the evidence they’re gathering.

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Unnecessary when the subject is in prison and disqualified from holding office.

Meanwhile, we have shit to do, in case you haven’t noticed.

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What do you think Merrick Garland and crew are doing? Why do you think they seized Eastman’s phone?

Imagine the shit storm if he had gone to the Capitol and told the mob to take it to the max, maybe telling the Capitol Police to get out of the way?

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I mean, as a counrty, we need these shits in prison ASAP so we can move on and start governing again. We got courts to rebalance and billionaires to tax!

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Who ever made that was quick! Nicely done too!

I had trouble telling from the interview, was the driver and security guy the same guy?

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i dont know her mariah carey GIF

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Unless you are under the impression that this is the only revelation, and nothing more will come of it. That it’ll all be wrapped up by, let’s say, late September.

That doesn’t make a lick of sense.

If this results in any prosecutions. Those likely don’t really kick off till after it’s over, the DOJ has it’s separate investigations. The one that’s spitting out sedition charges for the first time a quarter century.

The only reason you hold this back till just before a given election, is bald triangulation. So you can benefit, then immediately drop it. Either because you believe there is nothing there, and the accusations aren’t true.

Or because you prefer not to do anything about it.

The point of doing it now is to make a case. To find and put out information that leads to other information.

Hutchinson testified about the altercation, so Meadows and the Agent who was attacked can be pressured to confirm. Under threat of perjury.

And that can be used to pressure Meadows to testify about other details.

Documentation can be used to find and leverage additional evidence.

Doing this properly means it stays in front of people for years.

Pursuing it for election impacts means getting crowded out by whatever October surprise and the nation “moving on” and “healing” starting November 5th.

It’s been 6 months since this happened. And about 3 since Trump’s various stall tactics started to clear the courts.

None of this will be over by the end of the year.

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will the justice department act before 2024? because have no delusion, republicans actually want this. And If he becomes president he will absolutely pardon himself and his co-conspirators. This is no time to relax as if all of this direct evidence of crimes and corruption will convince the right wing voters to stay home or turn on him.

You’re missing my point.

Congress does not have prosecutorial powers. They don’t control who gets prosecuted in this at ALL. They’re not involved in any of the executive branch’s prosecution discretions, investigations, or the like.

What is happening at the hearings are legislative branch work. The evidence presented at these hearings may or may not already have been in the hands of federal prosecutors in the executive branch for awhile. None of what happens in the congressional hearings can result in charges other than “contempt of congress.” Even THAT has to be recommended over to prosecutors in the executive branch who have discretion on whether to act on that or not.

So you seem to be saying that I don’t think this matters. It absolutely DOES matter. But nothing that comes out of these hearings will give you the sedition charges, because these hearings don’t have the power to lead to seidtion charges. THAT will come from the Attorney General’s office in the executive branch.

What I’m saying is that I wouldn’t be surprised if congress critters are holding on to damning information to leak in front of the elections WHILE the prosecutors in the executive branch have the SAME evidence and are acting on it for their investigations.

Congressional committees are about finding the facts and drawing it into the light. They’re not about prosecuting people, because congress doesn’t have that power. The people that DO have that power have been working on this for a lot longer than this committee has been around, will continue to be working on it after the committee ends, and will be making charges and working up the tree of the Trump crime family long after many of these representatives’ next election.

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Reminds me of an LP with a scratch on it that repeats the same shit over and over.

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That “drawing into the light” bit can result in public pressure on both the DOJ and the President to pursue prosecutions and indictments where the evidence exists. Especially where a public referral is undertaken by Congress.

And while the Congress does not have prosecution powers. They do have subpoena powers, ones that are currently functioning after Trump’s challenges have finally failed their way through courts.

So they have an ability to find and secure evidence, both documents and through testimony that is admissable at court in a criminal prosection.

These things don’t happen in a vacuum. All these documents they’re pulling don’t go in a box in some closet. They come from or go to the DOJ, among other places.

Like wise you’re assuming that these things can have no long term impact on public opinion or the elections unless they are deliberately timed as “October surprise” late revelations.

My point is if you do this properly. Both in our now functional executive and in these hearings. You don’t need to hold anything back. Because there will be a persistent series of shocking revelations. Right up to the election and continuing after.

This does not need to chase off Trump’s core of voters. Because there aren’t enough of them to reliably give him even the nomination on their own.

If this opens a rift in the GOP, which it seems to be doing.

If this motivates DNC voters, which Roe being over turned seems poised to already.

If this pisses off enough non-voters and independents, which polling seems to show it is doing.

It could have major, major impacts.

These things are not zero sum.

And while horse race election coverage would like you to believe that Americans have short memories, and all that matters is the next scandal. And the few months before a vote.

Long running issues like this tend to stick with people, and show their impact over time. Years (and it has already been years) of escalating, proven revelations on this subject will have fallout.

And it won’t be some no one really expects it sudden reversal by hardcore fascists in any easily marked district for Steve Kornacki to show you on the big board.

Everything you’re saying comes off very much as typical doom saying. And the continual complaints that nothing is being done, as we watch things being done.

That’s all been frustrating and plain wrong for like 7 years now.

As to speculation that they’re scheduling this around elections, or holding back for election impact.

There’s no sign they are.

And they absolutely shouldn’t be doing it. Because that’s how these things fail. Both in the immediate offing, and in long term impacts.

As with absolutely everything else since Trump’s presidential campaign started.

The story is not “will it work” or “will he get away with it” or “what impact on the next election”. It is “what happened”.

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Total RICO case all the way! In this case, RICO first crossed my mind when they arrested the first 5 OathKeepers and had all of that spelled out in one big document. Those clowns were basically akin to the dudes that would go around collecting “protection money/taxes” from the local mom and pop shops for their Mob bosses. The low hanging fruit in the conspiracy :slight_smile:

It’s been interesting watching the fruit from higher on the tree slowly get picked, too.

Although I would prefer if the DOJ would just chop down the damn tree, of course.

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