… oh yeah, I’ll just stand in the street with a sign
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There is no single “majority party” in the United States right now, it’s a divided government. The Republicans are the majority party in the House of Representatives. The Democrats have the Executive branch and a slim majority in the Senate.
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Yeah, I’m aware. It’s one of the many thing wrong with your system.
No, but if you think that events like Brexit or the very real possibility that Marine Le Penn might manage to become the next French President isn’t evidence of other countries have very real issues, then you need to think again. We’re not the only place that’s having real problems with our democratic system. The fact that there are far right parties all over Europe who are gaining real power in many countries is a real problem. A far right party should never, EVER be able to gain any traction in a place like Germany after what happened there last century, but AFD has seats in the German parliment.
So where ever you live, you really shouldn’t get too smug. This is a globalized problem, with globalized consequences. We’re all seeing some kind of dysfunction because the neo-liberal system isn’t working for anyone but the very few with lots of wealth.
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Every democratic system of government has its strengths and weaknesses. The various branches of American government act as a check upon each other’s power by design, because the last thing Americans wanted when the system was enacted was a situation where one person or one party could do whatever they wanted once elected.
The idea was to create a system that required cooperation to get things done rather than a system that required cooperation to stop those in power from running amuck.
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Your system was set up by a bunch of wealthy landowners in the 18th century and hasn’t been seriously reformed since.
You could have something so much better if your ruling class allowed it.
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you’re comparing apples to oranges. democratic systems are different in different countries and so they have different failure points
more to the point, your statement was the america is uniquely broken and only tearing it down can fix it. as people are saying, we’re not so unique in the current situation. the details differ, but not the fundamental issues
i think that history has proven facists love seeing governments fall. the dissolution of government is exactly what the far right in america is pushing for
why in the world would we help them?
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Not having to deal with a party like the AfD would be good. Unfortunately a consequence of freedom of expression and giving people the right to vote and form political parties is that parties like AfD that skirt the line between being far-right, which in a modern liberal democracy like Germany is allowed in the interest of pluralism, and being so far-right that they can be outlawed for being anti-constitutional, can exist and have a following. Many AfD voters are “protest voters”, so if the AfD polls at 20% (as it currently seems to do) this does not mean that every fifth German voter is a dyed-in-the-wool neo-Nazi.
So, having said that, yes, the AfD does have seats in the German federal parliament, but no other party there wants anything to do with them, therefore at least for the time being they’re effectively neutralised. They certainly do not currently have anything resembling “real power”, and barring a disaster are unlikely to obtain any, at the federal level, anytime soon. In the USA, though, the far-right elements form an active part of the GOP contingent in Congress and, unlike the AfD in the Bundestag, they do get to make things difficult for everybody else.
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The problem isn’t the structure. It’s people and money.
If we get money out of politics and give all the people (who are already supposed to) a voice, we’re actually good, thanks!
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You don’t think ending chattel slavery or expanding suffrage to women were serious reforms?
(Anticipating your answer: “Those weren’t fundamental reforms of the system, they were changes made within the existing framework.” To which my response is: “If those kinds of changes could be made within the existing framework then perhaps the fundamental framework isn’t as flawed as you suggest.”)
Name me a government anywhere in the world that couldn’t be better than it is now if those in power weren’t acting out of self-interest.
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Funny, since Germany has a much harder line on the promotion of far right propaganda than we have here.
Yeah, which I did not say, so please don’t start that shit.
Don’t downplay having a far right party and the very real damage they can do.
Far easier just to act like America is the only place with problems, since it means that someone can laugh and feel superior…
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We do have freedom of expression here in Germany. This is limited when it comes to, e.g., holocaust denial, various forms of racism, or NSDAP party and other Third-Reich-related paraphernalia and imagery, and more generally calling for the abolition of the constitutional order. However, for a far-right party it is perfectly legal to rail against, say, Muslim refugees or the (purported) general incompetence and corruption of the established parties, to denounce government anti-climate-change measures, or to demand that “Germany must be made great again”, as long as they take care to not fall foul of the regulations. (It is also true that some AfD politicians do deny the holocaust, etc., and they tend to get in trouble for it.) That sort of thing is repugnant to most Germans today, but having to deal with it is the price we pay for living in a liberal democracy, where even people one doesn’t like have certain rights.
Absolutely. Far-right parties do deserve (and are getting) very careful scrutiny. What’s different is that here in Germany, the main far-right party is just one among a multitude of parties that are represented in the legislature, and while it has recently gained more influence it is still far away from actually wielding power. So far the mainstream parties have done a reasonable job of “firewalling off” the AfD by refusing to cooperate with it in state legislatures and the federal legislature.
OTOH, in the US, there are only two political parties of consequence and the far right is an integral part of one of them. So in effect, the far-right party controls various institutions at the state and federal level (including many state legislatures and administrations, plus the House and the Supreme Court) and in the upcoming election for POTUS is presumably only a hair’s breadth away from the highest office in the country (again). By contrast, that in Germany, the AfD will ever gain majority control of both the Bundestag (federal legislature) and the Bundesverfassungsgericht (federal constitutional court) is highly unlikely indeed.
Of course in the US, not every GOP voter is a far-right extremist, but the way the system is set up, those who actually are have a disproportionate influence over the general direction of the GOP – and of course, again due to the way the system is set up, if, e.g., you don’t think Biden should be president, your options are basically to vote for Trump or effectively abstain from voting (either by not voting at all, or voting for some other candidate who has no conceivable chance of actually getting elected), and vice-versa – and of course unless you happen to live in a place like Michigan, Georgia, or Wisconsin, your vote may not make much of a difference anyway. Compared to most European democracies with their multi-party systems that are based on some variety of proportional representation, this is a highly unusual, and undesirable, situation.
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On the other hand the American system of government also survived having a fascist elected as head of state; the various checks on the power of the Executive branch prevented Trump from realizing many of his worst ideas and eventually got him kicked out of office before he brought the entire country to ruin.
It was a close thing and we can’t take anything for granted moving forward, but that was still a better outcome than certain European democracies I could name had after they put a fascist in power.
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And the headlines will read “Will America blame Democrats for the shutdown?” To try and deflect the blame.
So far. If the establishment parties of the centre find the demands of progressives too threatening, they’ll cut a deal with the AfD in a second.
There are certainly issues with relying on an obviously flawed system like the U.S.'s to keep fascists from gaining power. There are also issues with relying on obviously flawed politicians to achieve the same goal, as in Germany. Neither country is immune from this threat to liberal democracy. No-one can afford to be smug and complacent.
Per Julius Goat, no-one cares about the myriad of excuses people give for voting for fascists. Although I will say that doing so as a protest vote tops the list in terms of sheer stupidity.
Either way, it’s particularly shameful that fascists are getting 20% of the vote in Germany of all places. Many Americans can still delude themselves that “it can’t happen here”, but Germans don’t have that luxury.
[Apologies if I’m repeating what others have said in this topic. I just feel we can’t afford to play games or stay silent in this situation.]
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And once again I am torn between not wanting to praise a member of the GOP for doing the absolute bare minimum that is their job, and even then barely… and recognizing that sadly enough even that would have taken some bravery - particularly given the kind of threats, both political and of violence, that people who step out of line with the party experience.
'course, someone with any genuine moral fiber would, you know, leave.
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I’d LIKE to say I’m a better person and not inwardly cackling with glee as the GOP implodes. But that would lying.
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Marge went off on a 20 tweet rant about talk about removing McCarthy and expelling Gaetz. Mixed in that rant was this tidbit and explains the entire problem with her and the others. They think they’re are the only ones in charge of everything.
She ends with “Remember who the enemy is.”
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And we were able to head off another in the 30s, too. Unlike Germany.
We’re deeply flawed, but we have had a rather steady constitutional order that has survived quite a lot of upheaval over the years. The elasticity has been key to that, I think. It can and has been changed to make way for society changing. It’s certainly not perfect, by any stretch, but we can change and improve the thing.
But yeah, Germany isn’t living under the Weimar Constitution right now… but sure… we’re the only ones with problems… 
“Nobody learns no nothing from no history”…
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