Could be a predictive title for a series on new American internment camps.
I hope to hell not.
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Knowing the President-elect, it would be a reality TV show that has an exciting new take on “you’re fired.”
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He sounds like a loony. A “self published” author, who had his discharge downgraded to “general”, which is a big thing. I agree that people like that are a danger to democracy. It is hard to tell if he has any real authority, or if he is popular for interviewers because he can be counted on to say controversial things on camera.
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Good point. And look how quickly the President-elect and his staff rushed to disavow a loony on the news representing himself as a fundraiser and surrogate for the new administration, suggesting how they plan to implement their stated goals via an outrageously repugnant precedent. Just as quickly as they disavowed support from white nationalists and the alt-right.
Yeah, just ghost stories.
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I was taught to learn history to know what someone else is going to throw us into.
And here we fucking are.
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That happened in Paris right after the Germans marched in.
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Look, at this point it’s all fantasies! It’s just not fair to judge Trump based on his allies, or who he appoints, or what he says he’ll do… We need to wait until he’s in office and has done something - at which point we can give him the benefit of the doubt that it wasn’t what he meant to do, and it’s not really so bad…
Just because the US elected an honest-to-god fascist, that’s no reason to get all in a tizzy about… oh shit oh shit oh shit
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As a fallback, learning history is a good way to know when to get the heck out of Dodge before it’s too late. “Them boys walkin’ around with Colts, they don’t mean what they say with all them threats. You’re worried about ghosts.”
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Alright. So, progress. You’re willing to admit that he’s a danger to democracy.
So, I have a question: At what specific threshold(s) or mile-markers would you be willing to admit that the liberals have a valid point and that we’re falling into a fascist dictatorship in the US?
You say that you are educated in history and specifically the history of genocides, ethnic cleansings and mass-graves. So, pulling from that, I formally request that you state, specifically, the points/parallels at which you would look at the news broadcast, stunned, and say to yourself, “Well, shit, we’re in trouble now.”
As you’ve been downplaying our fears for weeks, I feel that this is fair; please tell us what, specifically, you would find to be not just warning signs, but active danger klaxons?
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For Max’s sake I hope it’s something better than “when they finally come for me after they came for all the others.”
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I’m willing to give him the benefit of the doubt, and say that he’ll start protesting when there are organized mass executions at the latest.
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Those who do not learn from history are condemned to repeat it.
Those who do learn from history are condemned to watch others repeat it.
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It is a valid question, I will be honest and admit that. I am sure that everyone hopes to be able to tell their grandchildren that they were part of the resistance, instead of a collaborator. It is my experience that most people make that claim anyway, if they think that nobody is around to contradict them.
Of course, the bad guys do not always do you the favor of wearing black uniforms with skulls on them, to make their motivations fairly obvious. But even that has some benefit of hindsight. I know people who joined the NSDAP absolutely thinking they were doing the right thing.
I will consider the question for a little while. We are back in North Carolina, and I am taking advantage of the nice weather (but smoky) to cut some granite for new back steps. Lots of time to think. more later.
MB
Related question for everyone else: how many Latin-American families will you let Trump separate? How many Muslim Americans spied on, harassed, imprisoned, exiled, lynched?
What’s your tipping point? And what does that mean?
Hippy street theatre won’t work. Neither will retro fantasies about the Maquis. The security state is too strong for that now.
20th century tactics of political resistance are as outdated as Napoleonic cavalry in WWI.
We need modern tactics, and I don’t see any obvious example to draw from. There are plenty of examples of how to fuck things up, but very little on how to make things better.
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I find it worrisome that you can previously state that you call out dehumanization whenever you see it, and yet have not uttered a peep regarding the proposed new iteration of the Nuremberg Laws (targeting Muslims and Mexicans).
Furthermore, I find it somewhat implausible that someone who claims to have wide and deep education in this topic, can’t just come out and say such simple things as, “A new Night Of Broken Glass” or “the appointment to a high government office someone who is the ideological clone of Julius Streicher” or “A repeat of the Rape of Nanjing” as being the specific sorts of parallels and danger signs that you would find to be actively dangerous.
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The problem is, especially if you’re in the middle, is that we have been hearing each side call each other fascists for years. People are numb to it. Obama was supposed to destroy America in a half dozen ways. The fears people had of him, though based on questionable evidence, were every bit as real as now. Fear doesn’t need facts to thrive, though their fears turned out to be nothing.
Granted, many of the things Trump said to get elected were actually authoritarian/fascists. Was he trolling or does he have intentions to go through with it? Given what I have heard about the preparedness of his transition team, my assessment of him hasn’t changed since the primaries - he is a fucking clown. The danger now lies in 1) him giving power to the wrong people, and 2) “normal” Republicans - hopefully there are some left - don’t just rubber stamp every idea that comes down the pipe.
So, will these fears turn out to be real? I hope not. He has said a few things that makes me think that now that he is actually more than a just a blowhard with a mic, and he has to make real decisions some sanity will creep in.
As far as Klaxon alarms, it doesn’t take much for my cautious optimism to be snuffed out, especially given my tolerance for government shenanigans is low, and my more youthful willingness to accept a Machiavelli like compromise is much lower because the ends never seem to be worth the means.
Certainly something like a Muslim registration or interment is unconstitutional, completely against American ideals, and a waste of money - the thing he claims he wants to save because he is such a good businessman.
I hope no one learns that Lincoln suspend Habeas Corpus and claims that sets a precedent as well (though Gitmo is sorta like that.)
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The fact that this was an actual discussion I have had with my wife says it all.
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By the time we get to The Night of the Long Knives it will be far too late.
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Agreed, but the question is to Max, and is whether he will personally recognize that or be willing to admit how deep the shit has gotten at that point or any prior points.
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