Fuckin’ Bissell Brothers Swish. Best beer I will probably never have again.
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That’s a lot of thought to put into drinking an aggressively mediocre beer. Many better nitro stouts available. I suppose for people who like sports bars that just serve macro swill, aggressively mediocre might the best for which one could hope. Yet another good reason to avoid sports bars.
You and me both. I prefer the maltier taste of a Franconian Zwickl, also called Kellerbier. Amber in colour, about 5% alcohol and 12% to 15% specific gravity (Stammwürze), and less hops than a pilsner. Munich may be famous for its beer, but the hard water means it has to be softened for brewing lagers, or the yeast won’t work properly. Best to go just north of Nuremberg if you like beer.
That’s not quite how that works.
IIRC The chemistry of the water effects how the malts breaks down and convert sugars. To which degree certain nutrients are extracted. And pH. All of which can stunt the yeast. And after the extraction of the malts (the actual brewing) can impact hop utilization and final flavor of the beer if the water is too hard.
It’s not as simple as hard water being bad for pilsner. Brewing water should be hard. But not too hard. For all styles. And pH is a big factor too. Generally darker beers (with darker malts) want softer water and more alkalinity. And harder water is better or or just fine for lighter styles. Which need less alkalinity.
So unless Munich’s hard water is so hard as to be inappropriate for brewing anything it likely doesn’t need to be tweaked much at all for pilsner and light lagers.
And Munich isnt associated with pilsners. But with Helles Lager. Which was originally created around Munich as a localised German answer to pilsner. It’s different in pilsner in part because it was created around Munich’s water. Which is different than the Czech water Pilsner was created around.
The British isles are in part famous for dark beer styles because they have naturally soft water, with alkalinity from lime stone. A water profile that’s also great for making whiskey.
Almost all brewers these days manipulate their water chemistry to brew styles they aren’t suited for. That soft Irish water with lime stone? Yeah guineas makes a lightnlager now. Pilsner are brewed world wide, And all over Germany. Regardless of what local water chemistry looks like.
Water in the British isles isn’t uniformly soft. Far from it:
Quite a lot of southern England has incredibly hard water, which makes descaling kettles a huge pain. Of course, in brewing terms, this means that every area’s local ales are adapted to the local water conditions.
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Beer Advocate doesn’t.
For that time of the month.
In my experience, BeerAdvocate is full of the worst opinions on beer. The reviews are nearly uniformly useless.
Well, that’s what they taught me when I was studying to be a brewer and malter. And the whole legend of how it was a Münchner Diplombraumeister who went to Pilsen who tried it first with a Munich brewery, but the hard water was not kind to the Saccharomyces Carlsbergensis or bottom fermenting yeast when combined with pilsner malt.
It was a three year apprenticeship and I was proud of finishing at the head of the class, but I do admit that I last was a professional brewer in 1997.
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Yes but the more famous brewing and whiskey making areas tend to have access to soft, limes stone bearing waters. No place has water with uniform water chemistry. But the softness and the limestone in particular areas of the British Isles is generally held to have had major implication on the format and style of the beers there. And why their whiskey tradition managed to become so well regarded.
But the difference between Northern and Southern English ales. Particularly brown ales tells you something important. The North has the water that’s text book “right” for brown ales. But the South still makes them. And they can still be excellent.
Unless you’re talking water that’s so hard as to be dangerous or unpleasant to drink. There really isn’t any style of beer you can’t make and can’t make well. Discounting certain very dark styles which won’t extract properly with very hard water and an extreme pH.
Both Rate Beer and Beer advocate have issues with regard to their ratings. Their mostly based on user reviews, and the user base is heavily, heavily, young American Craft beer geeks. So there’s a lot of weird. A lot of traditional European styles or well regarded beers have really, really deflated scores. While American IPAs and anything Barrel aged. Or with wacky flavors. Are pretty inflated. Anything mass market or commonly associated with corporate, macro beer. No matter how good. Tends to have a depressed rating.
I think its BA that incorporates ratings from actual beer judges. Though they’re employees/founders of the site rather than industry wide professionals.
Essentially the issue is that they work off rating things overall. Rather than to style. The question is not “which is the best pilsner” its “which is the best beer”. Pilsners are a great example because many really, really well regard European pilsners have wretched ratings on both. Effectively what the community is telling us is not “this beer is bad” its “Pilsner is bad” or “this company is bad”.
Talking to actual brewers. Beer writers. Professional beer judges. People who just generally know their shit. Without the mass market = bad assumption. Guinness is still held in high regard. Particular if your talking Dry Stouts or Irish Stouts. Rather than just beer in general where style preference becomes a factor.
Also don’t be gross.
Like I said that’s not exactly how it works. Unless the water is borderline undrinkable. Its not really going to effect the yeast directly. What it does is fuck up all the wort so the yeast lacks critical nutrients or anything it can ferment. And leave a bunch of stuff behind that can react to create unpleasantness. And you get a stalled fermentation or a nasty tasting beer.
And like I said originally Munich brewers had to adapt Pilsner to local tastes and conditions. And created Helles.
Its a bit disingenuous to imply Munich’s beer is inferior. By focusing on a style they’re not known for, didn’t create. While ignoring something incredibly typical of Munich beer.
There is and was a lot of received wisdom and just so stories in the food an alcohol business. Like a lot of what’s still taught in Culinary school is stuff that people have made whole careers out of disproving. Like searing “sealing in the juices”.
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You know, the more we go back and forth, the more we make it necessary that we go on a bender together. All that needs to be settled is the city. I like discussing with you.
As far as Munich beers go, well, I guess I am biased to the beers from Bayreuth (where I was a brewer) and Kulmbach, due to the unique taste the sandstone bedrock gives to the groundwater. Munich beer, even the fabled Augustiner, is only good if you can get it in one of the pubs that still uses wooden 100 litre barrels, otherwise the beer is, well, okay. Giessinger is excellent, using the old Paulaner wells and sticking to amber unfiltered bottom fermenting beers. But Augustiner, Löwenbräu, Paulaner, Spaten, Hacker Pschorr, Hofbräu? Simply industrial stuff and you can taste it. But even if I live in Munich, I still can get bottles of Bayreuther Zwickl for my after work bottle, so I’m happy.
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Can the rest of us get in on this? Because a EuroBoing meet-up / beer appreciation day sounds awesome.
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Tannenzäpfle
I’m routinely shocked at whats coming into the US these days. Once upon a time your German options were Hofbrau and Bitburger. Seems like a lot of the more regional stuff is getting exported now. Tried the Rothaus for the first time a bit back and its worlds better than most of the major brands.
I would be happy to have a meetup of happy mutants, be it here in Munich or elsewhere. As long as there is beer, I will be happy. I tried to set up a new topic for this, but the BBS won’t let me. Claims I “cannot view the requested resource”.
Apparently most US Guinness comes from Jamaica, though I couldn’t find anything online to confirm this (wikipedia says Bahamas or Canada.)
Yet another classic beverage now owned by Diageo.
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