Hitler killed five million Jews. It is the greatest crime of our time. But the Jews should have offered themselves to the butcher’s knife. They should have thrown themselves into the sea from cliffs. As it is, they succumbed anyway in their millions.
Gandhi
How about
NO FUCKING WAY AM I DOING THAT JUST SO THAT SOME PACIFIST FEELS BETTER!
The_Borderer
Yes, that’s just what all oppressed and persecuted people need: yet another person of privilege with no skin in the game, dictating to them how and when they should resist the tyrants and fascists who persecute them.
That’s your choice; no one is forcing you to comment here.
O_O
Yeah, I’m with @anon73430903 on that:
I do not “go gentle;” I fucking ‘rage against the dying of the light’ and will do so until my last.
MLK used peaceful demonstration as a tool for the media to present the one-sidedness of violence against PoC, he also spoke about the necessity of people that can make an aggressive stand against violence in a country that has literally wiped entire towns off the map for being black. You can believe in both peaceful protest and defending yourself at the same time.
And it probably should be pointed out that you are making this argument in the shadow of yet another internationally organized fascist terrorist attack. Even the Berkeley demonstrations people love to point at were immediately after a Milo supporter shot an anti-fascist that was peacefully demonstrating at his previous stop. To make things so cut in dry is ignoring the teachings of the men you are quoting and modern history.
That’s not relevant. The picture you posted is a picture of KPD, the Communist Party of Germany. You’re the one saying KPD was the rational alternative to fascism, or are you?
I actually kind of agree that the antifa name doesn’t seem like the best strategic choice, (it’s a minor point but I’ve thought about it a bit in terms of strategic messaging). Particularly in the US linguistic environment the construction can sound awkward. In discussions I will generally fall back to using “anti-fascist(s)” (particularly with people unfamiliar with the term and historical background that @anon73430903 provided). It is clearly understandable and has less distracting baggage.
On the other hand, in the battle for hearts and minds, immediacy and simplicity of message might tip the balance in a few cases. These identifiers are mainly used by the press - and I’d wager in our gnat-like attention-span/blipvert media era the ““anti-fascist” protesters” label is less ambiguous and more resilient to the kind of terminological shenanigans that the right likes to play with names. (e.g. the “Democratic Party” vs. Democrat Party" thing that has become common parlance for the republicans lately.
But there’s no such thing as fascists. There are just evil un-Merkin anti-fascists and people who oppose them.
Remember where the word came from. It was invented by Nazis back in the 20s and 30s to describe anyone who opposed them. It wasn’t invented by Trade Unionists or Communists or Socialists or Jews or anyone else who loved freedom and human rights. It was invented by shit-puking pus-gargling Nazi scumbags to normalize themselves.
Did you meant to reply to me?
If you were an antifascist who didn’t like the KPD, you could vote for the SPD. They were also involved in AntiFA, as it was a united front against fascism which included members who were communists (both state and libertarian), social democrats and other people who saw the Nazis as the threat they were. The parties to the right of the SPD were filled with idiots who thought they could control Hitler.
Looking at the photo above, @petzl might have confused the anti-fascist symbol on the KPD building as one of the Communist Party’s own symbols instead as of a mark of affiliation with the united front.
If someone is going to make the argument that people ought to willingly succumb to violence to avoid being violence themselves for the sake of keeping the moral high ground, that argument better be backed up with some real numbers.
I mean, if you are going to treat human beings as a fungible commodity, so that it makes sense to let 10 die today to save 12 next year*, I’d like to at least believe that there is some evidence that it’s a sure bet.
MLK is invoked by Fox News as often as by progressive activists. That’s nothing against MLK, but we’ve been sold the idea that peace is always the answer by people who have the most to lose in a revolution.
Violence is terrible. I have genuine respect for a person who chooses pacifism for themselves and sticks to that when the cost of doing so it high. I have even more respect for people who put their safety on the line to protect the safety of others. Telling other people not to defend themselves doesn’t seem right to me.
* 20% interest!
Except wearing masks and using violence at counter-demonstrations is not “defending yourself.”
If what you’re doing is righteous, you don’t need to conceal your identity.
Huh? Since when do “key witnesses, informants, leakers” go masked to a counter-demonstration?
And you’d have a fair point. If the Antifa were non-violent. But they aren’t. They vandalize, throw stuff, and start fires.
That makes a lot of assumptions. For example, if one’s employer is a risk-averse conservative then wearing a mask at a demonstration (if it’s legal) and “doing a Batman” in the name of righteousness is a reasonable precaution. That’s not to say that lots of protesters wear masks for the wrong reasons, but it’s not a black-and-white situation.
So far I haven’t seen any instances of antifa initiating violence where they’re counter-demonstrating (the MSM would be all over covering that if it was happening). As I noted above, the antifa organisers seem to have learned from the missteps of the anti-globalisation protests and are either keeping their anarkiddie members in check or telling them that they’re not welcome.
You sound really mad at the cops.
More on that…
I put antifa in this category:
Words used throughout the ages by those in power to discredit any who oppose them.
The same was said about early Christians when their new religion threatened the old. The same was said of those who opposed slavery. The same was said of the French, Dutch and various other resistance movements during WWII. If I had more time I could keep going.
If you think power recognises the righteousness of any group, you are at best naive. If you think power = righteousness, then you are a fascist.
Since when? Key witnesses? Informants? Leakers?
The idea that the people on the side of “good” don’t need concealment is hilarious. Only those immune from retribution don’t need to conceal their actions, which is why there’s a specific group of people more willing to reveal their identity than not.
Fascist groups routinely document protests by photo and video, then follow up by doxxing and threatening identifiable anti-fascist protestors.
So do the police.
Masking is self-defence.
Today, HOPE not hate’s intelligence work is under heavy scrutiny. But cases like Mullen’s represent a fraction of the information we gather on the far-right – most of it never reaching the public eye.
“At any one time we might be receiving information from as many as 20 people inside far-right groups,” says Nick Lowles. “Some are ours, committed anti-fascists who have gone in to deliberately gather information. But most are walk-ins, people who approached us after becoming disillusioned with the far right and who now want to make amends.”
