I dunno…seems pretty great to me!
ETA: and thank you for doing the heavy lifting of reading through this thing for the good bits!
14 Likes
Ok, I finished reading it. Damn. That’s a lot. Some thoughts: 1) The plan to use fake slates of electors was a lot more nefarious that I had realized. I thought they were just pushing those in the event they could convince some states to overturn their elections, or in case some lawsuits succeeded, but no. The plan was to present these fake slates of electors to Pence so that he would have two sets of electors from the 7 states Trump wanted the election results overturned in, and then declare that since there were two sets of electors submitted from those states, he’d have to send them back to the states. In other words, it was to give Pence a pretext to not certify the election results on January 6. Fortunately, Pence refused to go along with this plan, and his staffers refused to even accept delivery of the paperwork with the fake electors. 2) Some of the co-conspirators are…I dunno…really, really bad people who advocated for some fucked up shit. Especially co-conspirator 1 (Rudy Giuliani) and co-conspirator 4 (Jeffrey Clark). I don’t know if either are going to flip on Trump, but I kind of hope they don’t, because they should die in jail. They really did want to overturn not just the election, but our democracy. They’re as guilty as Trump. 3) Co-conspirator 3, Sidney Powell, is just a moron. I don’t know how she got a law degree. She’s just an idiot. 4) If half of what’s alleged in this indictment is able to be proved, Trump is in big, big trouble.
32 Likes
I’m in law school. This is light reading. You should try reading a Cardozo opinion.
ETA:
The indictment uses the term co-conspirator. And it does not name them. So the media is going to refer to these people, accurately, as unindicted co-conspirators. You are welcome to call them whatever you’d like. It’s still a free country. Which reminds me of another thought I had while reading the indictment. The indictment specifically states that Trump had the legal right to make false claims about the election. He is not being charged with lying about the election. The charges are that he conspired to overturn the results of the election. His lies are a big part of the case, because they show that he knew what he was pushing was a lie, but the lies are not the crime.
30 Likes
This is absolutely true!
I’m enjoying how clear and concise Jack Smith and his team are in these indictments. I’ll probably read it tomorrow when I have a screen bigger than a phone. Hey, it’s totally self-study CLE! Got to get those continuing legal education credits somehow
20 Likes
The timespan for this investigation is actually pretty typical for Federal cases of this magnitude. For comparison, it took five years to bring a charge that would ultimately stick against John Gotti.
I don’t buy the idea that the DOJ has been actively avoiding taking action against a former POTUS who is now facing three separate indictments encompassing dozens and dozens of charges.
26 Likes
Agreed. These kinds of cases are complicated and huge. I think at first there wasn’t enough urgency at the DOJ. That maybe they were hoping that Trump would simply fade into the background. Which is a ridiculous hope. But they did chug along steadily.
But in the timeline of complicated expansive federal cases, Jack Smith and his team are moving very fast. They also seem to be extremely thorough. And I love how Trump just cannot seem to get any traction on Jack Smith at all. The man prosecuted war crimes in the Hague, the perfect choice to stand up to Trump and frustrate Trump to no end.
29 Likes
Exactly. So far I haven’t heard anyone with a background in law opine that the cases against Trump have been moving slowly; that’s just how the legal system usually works.
19 Likes
Especially white collar crime type of cases. In a way, violent criminal cases are easier to gather together and prosecute because there’s only so much evidence. Once the crime scene is processed at the evidence analyzed, there may be things like bank records or communications but not usually a whole lot .
Here there are dozens of people involved, terabytes of communications to go through, and frankly a very complicated conspiracy. They’ve also had to piece together evidence while working around the attorney client privilege. Since it’s such a high profile case and literally vital to our democracy that they get right, they can’t afford to cut any corners.
ETA: I do understand how frustrating it is. It does seem to have moved slowly, but not that slowly in the context of complicated federal cases. I would have loved to see Trump suffer the consequences of his actions within 12 months. But that’s just not a realistic hope
21 Likes
Yeah, I’m not a litigator, but my brother used to work white collar crime and the pace feels glacial. If anything this is going reasonably quickly given what is at issue.
13 Likes
Seconding edgore’s thanks for offering enlightenment to us legally unschooled folks.
I don’t know if either are going to flip on Trump, but I kind of hope they don’t, because they should die in jail.
I get why they get offered an incentive to land the big fish. I hope other crimes land them in adjoining cells in the MAGA wing of a penitentiary.
13 Likes
Co conspirator #1 Rudy Giulliani
Co-Conspirator #3 Sidney Powell (probably)
12 Likes
Co-conspirator #4 is Jeffrey Clark. #2 is John Eastman. #3 is definitely Sidney Powell. There’s a statement in the indictment about Trump calling #3 “crazy” but then going on to spread the lies that #3 had concocted, and we already knew Trump called Sidney Powell crazy.
21 Likes
… the “proceeding” did in fact get “obstructed,” right? It was delayed for several hours?
It wasn’t just an “attempt” 
14 Likes
… “co-co-con-co-spiracy-spiratorses”? 
3 Likes
Whatever floats your boat. Maybe someday soon they’ll all be co-inmates.
8 Likes
And to think that man probably could have had his own statue in Times Square if he’d simply had the good judgement to die circa 2002.
16 Likes
13 Likes
From Forbes, but the rest of the article isn’t needed. Obvious meaning is that Trump feels his situation is similar to the Nazis as they were hunted down post WW2.
17 Likes
Sure, but that evidence was obviously never solid enough to prosecute to begin with; with this fucker, you can’t have any holes in your case.
I have thought the same, myself… personally, I would have loved to see him being frog-marched straight to a jail cell as soon as the swearing-in was done, but I keep remembering: We don’t do that here.
Not now, and hopefully, not ever.
As the saying goes, the gears grind slow, but they grind exceedingly fine…
Patience, amigo… this might be the smell of rain after a long drought.
Damned if I’m gonna rely on just one bullet, though.
A shotgun is better, in this case.
14 Likes
Obvious meaning is that Trump feels his situation is similar to the Nazis as they were hunted down post WW2.
SSDD. I think the bigger problem is how many gullible people are still happy to swallow that shit.
You bet your petrichor!
13 Likes
