Kamala Harris makes it official

[nojaboja]

Within this entire thread I can only find three specific references to what Harris’ has actually done as AG:

@Barradeno on legal sanctions for school truancy. Which is appalling, awful, unnecessarily cruel and potentially disqualifying.

@knoxblox on FOSTA/ SESTA an attempt to tackle a highly complex issue where reasonable people seem to have disagreed.

and @Brainspore on Harris tackling big oil obtaining dozens of indictments for criminal wrongdoing by the same. Which is the kind of thing you would hope for from an effective, state prosecutors who is on the side of the little guy.

Everything else seems generalities which will inevitably apply to any AGs: locking up way too many people, especially too many POC.

@anon61221983

it’s about her background in law enforcement where she’s shown herself to be tough on crime instead of interested in fixing the problem.

The US has a known criminal justice problem, the criminal justice system has a known racial bias. A prosecutor is inevitably complicit in that system.

Are their other AGs with a better track record? Or is it just that AGs are generally unacceptable as presidential candidates because they will inevitably collude with a broken justice system. Of course in the US they also need to court the tough on crime popular vote to be elected.

It would be helpful if the discussion on KHs candidacy could focus on the specifics of her actions as an AG or even the role and limitations of an elected AG rather than ont he fluff of her marketing.

@anon61221983

BOTH parties are going to push for policies that antagonize Putin, unless one of the parties change.

Happy to be lectured on US politics, but please spare me with the bothsiedism on Putin.

The Clinton and Trump approach on Putin couldn’t be more diametrically opposed. While Clinton was trying to control a rogue KGB operative turned despot Trump is actively humoring him and implementing policies which makes Putin more bold and dangerous. It’s worth listening to Bill Browder or Gary Kasparov who are knowledgable and experienced on these subjects. The relationship with Putin deteriorated not because anything Obama did but, because Putin’s personal interests collided with the interest of a relatively transparent and well functioning western democracies. It seems like we will have an opportunity soon enough to see how appeasing Putin works out.

After all Trump has managed to radically change US Russian policy.

@anon61221983

Putin has regional and global aspirations that have nothing to do with whether or not we elect either party. That’s what you’re missing in this larger picture.

The larger picture goes way beyond the US and historically, the US (and US voters’) track record on grasping that larger picture is not great. It seems recognising and restraining Putin’s kleptocracy will be filed along with all those other miscalculations.

Edit to fix quote

[anon61221983]

@nojaboja

locking up way too many people, especially too many POC.

Which is a problem that many of us actually care about, given how that sprials into our larger society and reinforces racism in America.

@nojaboja

but please spare me with the bothsiedism on Putin.

I think I’m on pretty strong ground here, that both parties have a long history of reinforcing American positions which DO antagonize Putin. Historically, the democratic party was often far more hawkish than the GOP with regards to the Soviet Union - just look at the records of Kennedy and Johnson and compare that with Nixon and Reagan.

@nojaboja

It seems like we will have an opportunity soon enough to see how appeasing Putin works out.

It will come to the same end. Because he’s a leader with is own set of interests.

@nojaboja

the US (and US voters’) track record on grasping that larger picture is not great.

I’m sure my phd is useless in that regard, given it’s in US transnational history during the Cold War. Just because I don’t agree with your view that throwing my fellow citizens under a fucking bus because of foreign policy.

[LurksNoMore]

@anon61221983

Maybe we shouldn’t vote for war hawks from either party…

That doesn’t help as long as Putin and his crowd are in power in Russia. A conflict needs only one bad actor to start and maintain.

[anon61221983]

The opposite is also true…

Foreign policy is a complicated game and you can’t predict outcomes. We DO know now that many of our cold war era policies led to some pretty negative blowback. We can look at history and make some more informed choices that doesn’t continue to create similar outcomes.

[alahmnat]

@nojaboja

Are their other AGs with a better track record? Or is it just that AGs are generally unacceptable as presidential candidates because they will inevitably collude with a broken justice system. Of course in the US they also need to court the tough on crime popular vote to be elected.

I think if someone wants to run for president, they do so in the contemporary political climate of the day. If that political climate includes marked hostility within the candidate’s party toward tough-on-crime "top cop"s in the midst of growing demand for sweeping progressive criminal justice reform, said candidate is not going to be helped by having been one, especially if there are no signs that the candidate thinks they did anything wrong with the benefit of hindsight.

The electorate is in no way obligated to overlook a candidate’s record just because it’s inconvenient for that candidate to have come to power in a different political climate.

[anon61833566]

Oh, this thread.

[nojaboja]

@anon61221983

locking up way too many people, especially too many POC.

Which is a problem that many of us actually care about, given how that sprials into our larger society and reinforces racism

Way to quote selectively and miss the point.

Mindysan33:
[/quote]

@nojaboja

Are their other AGs with a better track record? Or is it just that AGs are generally unacceptable as presidential candidates because they will inevitably collude with a broken justice system. Of course in the US they also need to court the tough on crime popular vote to be elected.

@anon61221983

I’m sure my phd is useless in that regard, given it’s in US transnational history during the Cold War.

I am sure it’s far more qualifying on Putin and his Cabal than actually living under the influence of the KGB. But we really digress.

Anyways, Harris lost me today. The political discourse has evidently fallen through the roof and nothing particularly in depth policy / solution focused will emerge from this mess.

Kamala Harris

@alahmnat

If that political climate includes marked hostility within the candidate’s party toward tough-on-crime "top cop"s in the midst of growing demand for sweeping progressive criminal justice reform, said candidate is not going to be helped by having been one, especially if there are no signs that the candidate thinks they did anything wrong with the benefit of hindsight.

This is it. The overtone window has shifted. While Harris probably wouldn’t have been elected as AG without the tough on crime stance she will likely not be elected as Democratic candidate because of that same stance.

My favorite candidate would be Stacey Abrams. Who knows maybe the overtone window will shift beyond recognition by the end of the year and just as Trump was possible in 2016, Abrams will be possible in 2020.

[anon61221983]

Okay, you know what, we’re done with this conversation. You clearly think that I don’t know shit and aren’t will to take whatever I say seriously. I don’t deserve your condescension, but whatever.

Good day.

[Melz2]

At least you have the comfort of Muphry’s Law to ease your irritation slightly, as someone deigns to talk down to you needlessly whilst repeatedly making the same mistake:

Overton window

[anon61221983]

Murphy’s law is like a damn comfort blankie!

The thing is, if at the end of it, they still disagreed with me, okay… it’s the needless condescension that I’m somehow unable to comprehend American politics and global affairs, just because I’m an American…

[gracchus]

@anon61221983

Murphy’s law is like a damn comfort blankie!

i see what you did there. Nice double-twist.

[anon61221983]

[anon61833566]

I don’t intend to be rude when replying to others, so I usually don’t ask or pose this…but I can’t help but wonder at times: If you aren’t an American or you reside elsewhere in the world…Then why in the fuck are you so god damn blasted interested and opinionated about our politics?! Mind yer fucking business and shut the fuck up.

I know I know…America has far reaching effects especially its politics, global day and age and all that…But I always refrain from posting that as it could be deemed rude and all.

I just feel when Americans stick their noses in other people’s politics (talking about us pleebs, not the actual gov’t) others seem to get very “uppity” about it.

You are more patient and understanding than I would have been.

[Melz2]

Yeah… so many people don’t seem to realize that mere agreement or “being right” is rarely the actual issue here on BB. It’s the way in which some of us choose to convey our ideas that is problematic.

It doesn’t matter to me who agrees with my opinions or not if I feel that I’m not being given the basic modicum of respect that should be afforded to everyone.

[anon61833566]

@Melz2

It doesn’t matter to me who agrees with my opinions or not if I feel that I’m not being given the basic modicum of respect that should be afforded to everyone.

[anon61221983]

@anon61833566

Then why in the fuck are you so god damn blasted interested and opinionated about our politics?! Mind yer fucking business and shut the fuck up.

The thing is, I actually do understand why people are interested in US politics who don’t live here. What happens here does have consequences elsewhere, so I’m not umsympathetic to that point of view entirely… However, I do think that ignoring real and ongoing domestic problems doesn’t help us to have a better foreign policy. As long as we’re racist in our domestic policy, we’ll be racist in our FP, too. Domestic and foreign affairs aren’t mutually exclusive.

@anon61833566

I just feel when Americans stick their noses in other people’s politics

Yeah, and it’s most certainly not something we should be doing at all.

@anon61833566

You are more patient and understanding than I would have been.

@Melz2

It doesn’t matter to me who agrees with my opinions or not if I feel that I’m not being given the basic modicum of respect that should be afforded to everyone.

Exactly!

[Melz2]

And to be fair and honest, I am quite aware that I can be just as snide, condescending, and downright malicious as anyone else here, probably even more so.

I own that; at the same time, I am also secure in knowing that I don’t actively start most of my conversations that way.

What you ‘get out’ is whatever you’ve ‘put in.’

[anon61833566]

@Melz2

I am quite aware that I can be just as snide, condescending, and downright malicious as anyone else here,

Yeah @anon61221983 you are 100% correct…but as ot the above point…I sort of want to be snide and say “Yeah, you don’t live in this house…go worry if your bathroom is clean…stay out of mine.” I have patience for many things in my life…internet “I MUST BE RIGHT” folks aren’t among them.

[Avyctes]

@anon61833566

I don’t intend to be rude when replying to others, so I usually don’t ask or pose this…but I can’t help but wonder at times: If you aren’t an American or you reside elsewhere in the world…Then why in the fuck are you so god damn blasted interested and opinionated about our politics?! Mind yer fucking business and shut the fuck up.

Unfortunately what happens in the US has worldwide consequences. Things like a domestic housing bubble that sends the whole world into recession like in 2007. Or 45 withdrawing from the Paris agreement. Shit like that matters, to everyone, everywhere. I wish you guys didn’t have such outsize influence but you do.

[anon61833566]

@anon61833566

I know I know…America has far reaching effects especially its politics, global day and age and all that…But I always refrain from posting that as it could be deemed rude and all.

So I stated this exactly already in my post. So you decided to come and parrot what I actually said as if I hadn’t said it to what end or purpose?