But of course, this was just the action of one bad apple, it’s not as if the LAPD has a history of racism or anything…
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I see a lot of mention of “probable cause” and “profiling” in these comments. But do these really apply in this case? The police officers didn’t see these two making out and then decide to question them- someone called the police to report some situation (presumably related to these two making out (her sitting on his lap) in the front seat of a car). We don’t know what the caller told the police, only that he/she apparently was so upset that he/she had approached these two earlier to tell them to “stop putting on a show”. Without knowing what the caller told police, it’s impossible to know what they were investigating, and whether or not they overreacted.
Of course it does!
First of all, in many states, an arrest record is enough to fuck up someone’s life, regardless of any court rulings.
Second, people can be held in jail, and threatened with beatings and/or rape, if they don’t plead guilty. I mean Duanna Johnson got beaten… and got killed by parties unknown after she sued the police…
Third, in many jurisdictions, because it’s hard to get actual evidence against street workers, it’s often illegal to fit the profile [manifesting prostitution] as well as to actually sell the services.
Fourth, in many other jurisdictions, because it’s hard to get actual evidence, and it’s not illegal to fit the profile, things like carrying condoms are considered enough ‘evidence’ to convict.
Fifth, it usually goes before judges, not juries, and judges often side with the police and with the system rather than with someone accused of prostitution… I mean Monica Rosa got railroaded… I guess they think prostitution’s dirty work and railroading people isn’t.
P.S. I haven’t personally had to deal with this.
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Depends on the State, but the cops must have a “reasonable suspicion of involvement in criminal activity”
Kissing while black is not a reasonable suspicion nor a crime
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Again, this wasn’t a random stop. I would assume if someone called it in they had to investigate. See something, say something, and all that bullshit.
While I agree failing to produce ID when it’s requested is only going to exacerbate a situation, just because you or I might expect an immediate unpleasant experience doesn’t make it right or lawful.
California is not a state that requires you identify yourself, at least from what I understand. So whether she didn’t produce ID or refused to state her name, she seems to have been within her legal rights.
As for the idea that the community should be able to pressure police to make unlawful stops or unconstitutional arrests, I think it’s the job of the police to resist that pressure. Just because some old lady looking out her window sees a black woman kissing a white man and thinks it’s prostitution doesn’t mean the police should act or respond.
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Did someone mistake her boyfriend for Hugh Grant?
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I guess that she is lucky to be alive…
Walmart Shooting: Lone 911 Caller Admits Lie, Crawford Never Pointed ‘Gun’ — And That’s Not All
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I think there might be. In the article they weren’t just “kissing”, she was sitting on his lap, and they were making out. She also refused to supply ID, which does allow officers to retain you until they can verify identity. Judging from Youtube videos of other people in this situation, refusing to show ID can also be short-hand for being belligerent or difficult.
I’m not saying this last bit is the case, it might be, it might not be. If it isn’t the case, then shame on those officers. But it is really hard to leap to judgment without more information. Also, why am I supposed to jump to the conclusion that this is profiling, or that the cop thought she was a hooker, or him a pimp? I don’t see any information leading this way.
Sometimes I ponder if Boing Boing is turning into a slightly smarter version of Buzzfeed.
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Technically there should never be a “random” stop.
you are also assuming a somebody called in a “prostitution in progress”
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Just after gazing into something shiny, no doubt.
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As reported in the source article, somebody DID call in. Maybe it was a “prostitution in progress” they reported, maybe it was a “murder in progress”- none of us know. Maybe in the video the police officer is explaining to her why he’s investigating, but we can’t hear the audio and neither of the two people who were stopped give any account of what the police told them. There is too little context given for this story to rationally take a side without making a dozen baseless assumptions. Which is why this is clickbait.
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I agree completely. I’m just not personally inclined to stand up for principle when it’s easier to bend the knee to authority for a minute and then go on with my privileged easy-going life.
I’m not proud of taking this particular step down the slippery slope, and I have many other weaknesses even worse that that one. I admire brave people even if I don’t always understand what motivates them.
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Cops have been known to claim somebody called in a crime after the fact to justify the stop
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not criminal activity
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“Have been known”? By whom? How often? Why are you telling me this? Have you decided that the cops in this case lied? That’s a pretty big leap to make. Or maybe you’re helpfully adding to my list of the assumptions one could make to even start to have an opinion one way or the other about this substance-free anecdote of a news item.
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Never claimed it was… but it also wasn’t just “kissing” as claimed. As a person, who in my youth spent lots of time in cars “not just kissing”, it isn’t uncommon to be stopped by police and being told to move on. My point was that there is more to this than just the synopsis here claims. I’m not going to justify the actions of the police, but I’m also not going to paint the couple as blameless victims, at least until there is information that leads in either direction.
Probably, as in most things, both parties exasperated the situation. Cops being over-zealous, and the lady for being non-compliant, or difficult. Or not. There isn’t any way to tell, which is my only point.
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Pretty sure that’s exactly what “presumed innocent” means.
Well this is broad daylight, in a public place. I think it’s safe to say she wasn’t playing hide the salami. And short of “public lewdness” which in CA requires that private parts be exposed, there was no crime - it’s perfectly legal to kiss/make out/do whatever comes natural in a car as long as nothing is exposed. If you were told to “move along” in your youth for “parking” it was probably because you were in a park after hours, on private property, or in some other way trespassing. If you weren’t, you could have legally gone on your merrymaking business. No crime means no reason to stop, and no reason to ask for identification - as I said above, CA isn’t a state where a person has an obligation to identify themselves to the police. Even in states where that is a requirement, it’s generally a requirement only once arrested, or detained in the investigation of a crime, and that crime has to be specific and articulated. One could say that the call from this anonymous racist old lady gave the police a reasonable suspicion that a crime was occurring, but that’s a long shot; a person who calls and says “there’s a prostitute on the corner making out with a john” is drawing legal conclusions that the police cannot rely on. If the caller said “there’s a woman on the corner kissing a man” or even “while sitting in his lap” again there is no crime being reported, and the police are welcome to roll on by and observe the situation but without probable cause or at least reasonable suspicion, no stop can be made and no identity is required.
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I rather suspect that the caller’s problems had a lot to do with them being of different races, but, while it makes the caller culpable, too, it in no way excuses the actions of the police. Cuffing someone for refusing an illegal request should be grounds for immediate firing and blacklisting.
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That makes all the difference. Premarital kissing is reason enough to arrest any black woman.
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