I wonder if Obama’s parents got hassled like this when they were together back in the '60s, or if Hawaiian police were cooler about that stuff, or if the fact that his mother was white and his father black made a difference.
When I was a kid on the US East Coast in the '70s my family knew a man from Hawaii who married a white mainlander, and he was dark-complected and had some of the physical characteristics of someone with African ancestry. I got the impression from them that people were cooler with it in Hawaii than on the mainland, at least back then.
Stories like this current one make me sad and angry.
I hate cops, actually I hate people who dont stop for a second to think about there actions beyond “but the law/my constituents/parents/friends says…”. And unfortunately cops fall into this category 9/10 times.
If she had just given her ID to the cop this may not have happened. But at the same time we shouldn’t live in a society where this is required. I’m tired but didn’t the article say something like the way she was dressed gave them suspicion for prostitution? Prostitutes dress like more or less average folk. Or at least your average walmart folk. They don’t have a uniform.
I need a flow chart for this one. After reading this I had to admit to myself I had no idea what my rights would be in this situation. I found this:
And this says the first question you ask is “Am I being Detained?”. This I suppose is to immediately distinguish whether or not the Officer considers you a suspect. They have to have cause here, so that’s a pointed question to them. If they tell you that you are being detained, then show your ID. If they did not have cause, happy lawyering later for you. If they say you are not being detained, best turn on your heals and leave.
But they won’t necessarily tell you that you’re being detained. You can ask all you want, but they can evade or ignore the question as long as it suits them.
This seems a pretty clear case of an illegal detention, and probable racial (racist) profiling. Some commenters are quick to say she should have just complied with the police officer’s request for ID. That’s an authoritarian mindset. The police do not have the right to exceed their authority and they should never be allowed to do so.
The lesson here:
Download Ustream or other livestreaming app to your phone. Get an account and make sure you are signed in.
Keep your phone handy and open the livestreaming app the moment you are approached by police. If you don’t want to deal with the app, at least open your video camera and start recording the instant the police approach. The police can still delete your phone’s content (as they have done to Occupiers and other activists) so the livestreaming approach, which automatically uploads to the cloud, is the safest choice.
If necessary, inform the officer that you are recording and livestreaming your encounter to the Internet because you believe all encounters with public officials ought to be public.
Ask if you are being detained and, if you are, for what reason. If the officer tells you you are not being detained ask if you are free to go. If you are free to go, wish him or her a nice day and leave.
Always be respectful but do not give up any of your rights.
From what I can gather, in California, police requesting ID is never illegal. Refusing to show ID is illegal however, if the police asking for it have reasonable suspicion (in a legal sense) that you’re involved in illegal activity (Apparently a simple phone call from an informant is usually insufficient). I don’t think we can even try to armchair-decide whether or not there was reasonable suspicion without knowing more facts, or at least knowing what the police claim they were investigating. Maybe this was unjust, but it seems too early to have much of an opinion at all- it’s just arguing hypotheticals.
Yeah, I’m getting tired of how hardworking certain villians are. Those bankers put in long hours raping the ecomomy. Those cavalry worked really hard during the American genocide. It wasn’t easy for those Germans staffing the concentration camps. The Israelis are really working up a sweat while they bomb Gaza into oblivion.
I could care less how much effort you put into doing the wrong thing, what I really want to know is what it’ll take to make you stop.
At least she didn’t get nailed by Phoenix’s laws. Apparently just walking is good enough for them to charge you with prostitution. Especially if you aren’t white, and are transgender.
The supreme court ruled in 2004 that you MAY be required to identify yourself to an officer who has “reasonable suspicion” that you were involved in a crime, but even in that circumstance you’re not required to present government-issued ID. For the moment at least, citizens are theoretically allowed to go about their daily lives without carrying papers.
[quote=“Jehovazilla, post:29, topic:41078, full:true”]
Judging from Youtube videos of other people in this situation, refusing to show ID can also be short-hand for being belligerent or difficult.[/quote]
Can somebody direct me to a brief summary if what you ARE required to do when detained by police. This country is not yet to the “papers please” state. You need to have a driver’s license if you are actually driving. Otherwise you really do not need to even own ID (but it would make flying, voting, or opening a bank account more difficult).
If you are not driving, do you even need to show your license (assuming that you have one)? Any scum bags, oooops, I mean lawyers here? (just kidding)
And the call had established in the cop’s mind the idea that he was going to investigate criminal activity. Once that initial frame is established, it can be hard to overcome, although overcoming it is part of the cop’s job.
In the case of law enforcement, sure. But in the case of this being news, and open to interpretation to the internet peanut gallery… Nope. I’m not a cop dealing with them, I don’t have to presume them innocent or anything else. My point is just that we don’t know the whole story, so it is really silly to run with it and paint it as “bad cops” harassing people because of racism. With more information, we could judge.
That being said, no, making out isn’t a crime, and no, you don’t have to supply ID. But police are also allowed to knock on the window and see if everything is okay, or assess the situation to make sure it isn’t a john and a prostitute.
Not a lawyer, and I don’t play one on television… But I think that depends on the laws of your state, and your situation. In most, non-vehicular, situations, in most states, you don’t need to supply ID on routine stops. But in any escalation it could bite you in the butt, as they can detain you to verify identity. For the most part I have never needed to supply ID to police (they haven’t asked), even when I “matched the description” once. But when they do, I will supply it.
It depends on the state, some of which have laws requiring that you ID yourself if asked under certain circumstances, others of which (apparently like CA) do not. In those that do, the police may require ID if you are either arrested for a crime or detained on suspicion of a crime - again, this is a legal distinction. Detention generally requires reasonable suspicion of an articulatable and specific crime (not just “I thought she was up to no good”). As for the ID required, it seems like legal name is usually enough, except in crimes (suspected or charged) that have an age componant - if you have a beer in your hand, answering the question of whether you’re of legal drinking age may be required under state law. But if you’re jaywalking, probably not.
Long story short; it depends on the state. Know your rights, and don’t be afraid to exercise them.
