If you think that a critique of the Patriarchy is a critique of you, then you are probably under some illusions about your place in the world, aren’t you?
That it attacks your values (since those are inculcated for the benefit of the Patriarchy and not your own) is painful. Coming to understand the nature of your ideology is always painful. However that doesn’t mean that it isn’t valuable.
As for the film being ‘ruined’ by the disclosure of the social commentary built into it; it was the MRAs that started banging on about this because they got butthurt about women doing stuff, so it is they who have spoiled your enjoyment.
I think the meta-narrative on this was that some of the extreme Male Supremacy movement tried to smear Fury Road as feminist propaganda, and called for a boycott. (CNN link, safe)
Now that the movie has garnered near universal acclaim, some find it funny to rub the misogynists’ noses in the line in the sand that they drew themselves.
So, one could argue it’s less of a “feminist battlecry” and more of “remember when the cavemen tried to make a stand at Little Bighorn.”
Didnt the original cross the equator? Anyway, yeah, completely different continent. I seriously doubt I could finish even going 15mph, but it would make for some great stories
Oh, and it costs like two million bucks if yer serious. So that ain’t happening in my lifetime.
Mad Max a feminist movie? In the best possible way, in that it shows rather than tells (or preaches), andomygod, it adds up to a great movie. Not because of it, not in spite of it, but because of how its told. It didn’t need to treat all its characters as people to sell tickets, but it does, and it sells tickets. http://www.boxofficemojo.com/yearly/chart/?yr=2015&
I don’t understand what started this cultural backlash against feminism, I understand its out of fear, but I just don’t understand where that fear comes from.
And that’s the key here, there’s nothing to fear from feminism and feminists, yet these people live in fear, and lash out because of this fear, in the most ridiculous ways possible. They’re jumping at shadows, scared of straw man feminists while I sit here, puzzled, wondering what the hell are they talking about?
“Look at the big bad feminist!” they say.
I turn around and see women, just trying to get by.
“They’re coming for my manhood” they shriek.
I don’t think there was any “manhood” there to begin with. Just, probably, the illusion that they are better because they were born that way.
I guess they’re scared that other people have begun to stop supporting their illusion that they are somehow intrinsically special.
Or that they long for a nonexistent past they glorify where they would have been more than what they are. Maybe just as screwed socially, but at least they could order women around back then.
Why the hell do they pick on women? Beats me. Maybe 'cause they think they’re weak and that makes them feel strong?
I used to know a coke dealer who bought an ex Dakar LWB Landy with a Cosworth-tuned Rover V8 in it. It would do 150 on the road if you pushed it, and was fucking terrifying.
For one thing, often the whole “manhood” thing is all they have. They’ve been brought up to believe in it and how it defines everything they do and think. They are victims of society just like everyone else. But, and this is just my opinion so take it only as such, a multitude of things have labeled them as “enemies of feminism and women”, not least of which is they themselves.
So they end up in front of the social push for change and instinctively push back. Because everyone, and I mean everyone, thinks they should. None of them was born that way. That is what we as a society have made them, intentionally or unintentionally. They don’t pick on women because it’s easy or because it’s hard, it’s because they have been raised to think that this is what they have to do in this situation.
And as long as they are treated as the enemy, that is what they will stay. The harder the social push, the harder they push back.
Well, that’s what I don’t understand, from my experience, they actually don’t, yet they defend manhood as if by doing so, they are entitled to it.
Isn’t their version of manhood dependent on what other people do or don’t do?
If feminists have their way, then they won’t be men anymore.
Doesn’t sound to me like an intrinsic property of the man, but of a status bestowed by the other.
That it can be lost or taken away is the most damning thing against them.
If I am a man and not a boy its because of what I do, that some will judge me either as weird, weak or not a man doesn’t change who I am.
That the perception is what changes and that the validation comes from outside is what tells me that these people do not posses their manhood.
That they fear it can be lost tells me that its the fear which warps their view of what is real.
Yes, I do think you have a point, what I find hard is to understand where/when women get defined as the enemy. I don’t think (but I can be wrong here) that it just has to do with a binary choice, either you’re a man or a woman, I think that would point to other identity issues which we do see pop up from time to time. (I’m thinking of homophobic people who turn out to be gay)
I agree that its social in nature. But I do think that picking on women, while it has an element of social conditioning, also provides a feedback loop to reinforce this same social programming, so it it both a symptom of the disease and the conditioning itself. At some point though, agency has to come into play. Its what separates the men from the boys after all.
Thing is, it doesn’t matter in the slightest. Even if such a thing exists as “being a real man”, they think, therefore they are. No matter what or who defines it to them.
I too doubt it’s a binary issue. What has made women the “enemy” is built of millions of little pieces. Most are things that are hard if not impossible to put to words by even the most ardent woman-hater. Some of the reasons could well be because the “fem” part in the word feminism, education or the lack-there-of, social conditioning, maybe even some of the more confrontational feminists themselves unintentionally.
What should be noted is that it is highly doubtful anyone wakes up in the morning and thinks to themselves “How shall I oppress women today.”
Even the most fundamentally religious people think what they do is in the people’s best interest. It takes enormous effort to change and be different from everyone you know. Think racial issues in the American south in the sixties, how hard would it be for a white person there and then to think “I don’t think there actually is anything different between me and those black people.”
Going with the tide and not having to change or challenge your way of thinking is the path of least resistance for the vast majority of people. This doesn’t make them evil, just human.
You don’t understand because you are in the feminist crowd, you chant their mantra.
Take a step back and look at this thread.
A self identified man puts out a line of thought that doesn’t meld with Marilove’s feminist ideals and she promptly proceeds to bash him over the head with it until he walks away. That type of reaction to a different opinion is what started the majority of backlashes. Yes there are asshole misogynistic guys who hate women for various reasons, at the same time I’d wager there are women who hate men but are probably a little less vocal about it - it’s unlikely those people will cease to exist anytime soon. As for the general push back against feminism, I personally believe a lot of it is the perceived screaming and yelling that casual men receive from the more aggressive parts of the feminist circle.
I believe in equality - that means equal in my world - and there are parts of modern feminism that don’t work well with that idea.
If one partner is scream and yelling about how the other one is the cause of all their problems then sooner or later that partner is either going to tune out, fight back, or leave.
If both partners treat each other with some respect, try to work toward common goals, and try and understand the position and needs of the other then a long and successful relationship is possible.
It’s funny because normally I disagree with a lot of both what @marilove says and how she says it. But here I think she was bang on - particularly with regards to the guy’s tactic of ‘take cheap shots then immediately demand civility’.
I don’t think these guys have really got a problem with feminism. They have a problem with themselves, for which feminism is a convenient scapegoat. Oh no, female agency has denied me yet again. It must be the feminists that are to blame and not the fact that I’m a tedious incoherent windbag with a deeply unattractive personality and a chip on my shoulder the size of Tennessee. Grr, those feminists!
Well, thanks?
I don’t think I’m part of the feminist crowd, I don’t even understand half of the problems that feminists have spent quite some time identifying and addressing. The big salient ones, equal opportunity, equal pay, equal representation? Who actually fights against these? If you do, then go ahead and let it rip, if you don’t, then lets move on. (Cause that’s how far my feminism cred goes anyway)
But that’s exactly my point. If he’s such a man why does he walk away? What, is he fearing for his life?
Two things:
1.- I’m not so sure he put out a line of thought as much as he vented some frustration incoherently.
Should @marilove have engaged? IDK its up to her right?
Was he able at any point to get his point across? not to me, but then again its hard to reach those who think differently than you, he made the fatal flaw of debate of assuming that saying what you believe to be a true thing is the same as being persuasive in your argumentation.
2.- If a feminist beats you in an argument, do you turn tail and run and cry foul or do you come up with a better argument?
If your argument doesn’t stand up to scrutiny then your argument may not have merit. The fact that people who already agree with said argument find it compelling does not negate that it remains unconvincing to the uninitiated. Its not a good argument if it doesn’t actually convince anyone.
But isn’t this like saying that racists are driven to not care about black people because black people won’t shut up about the injustices done to them?
Ultimately, my point is I have nothing to fear from feminists, that people do fear them doesn’t have to do with what feminists are saying or how loudly they are saying it. Not from where I’m sitting.
I don’t expect this to make anything better, I just don’t see the how big tough guys are being threatened by people who can’t get the same pay for the same work.
