Malaysia blames quake on naked selfie tourists, some of whom now can't go home


#1

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#2

Why are all these people taking local superstition seriously?


#3

The better questions is why are they being so disrespectful? It’s not their country, they are visitors. It’s just as rude as the happy selfies at Auschwitz.


#4

The better question is what is so disrespectful about the human body?

Isn’t it about time that we universally gave up shaming people over their bodies, the things we all have and is perfectly natural? One mechanism many religions use to control people is teaching them shame about the human body, shame about human sexuality, shame about human desires. It is high time we moved past that dark ages BS imho.

I agree with @jerwin these people are taking their local superstitions way too seriously.

I say they honored the mountain gods, and the gods applauded. Or maybe just perhaps earthquakes are due to tectonic movement and have a scientific explanation that has absolutely nothing to do with these tourists or some imaginary mythos.


#5

Sometimes, there are stupid questions.


#6

Now, I don’t do selfies. So I don’t do nude selfies.

But if I did, I wouldn’t cover my junk. That’s just weak.


#7

Are these selfies? None of the images appear to be taken by a person in the actual photo.


#8

Sure, but there’s still a time and a place. @GregortheMendel question about Auschwitz is a good one. Bin the happy selfies and replace it with a group of skinhead boot boys, stripping down to to take photos that - what did you call it? - honour their Norse Gods under the Arbeit Macht Frei sign. That’s all good in the 'hood?

Yes, linking natural events to people taking photos you don’t like is dumb, but that doesn’t excuse the people taking photos from also being dumb, and being dicks (NPI) about it at the same time.

That’s mighty white of you. Are there many other cultures which you’d like to tell they’re doin’ it 'rong? Maybe advise the French should use less butter in their cooking, or the Aborigines that Dream Time is just a collective hallucination? Perhaps let the Japanese know that their fascination with anime has gone just a little too far?

FFS. It’s their culture, so they get to say what’s offensive to them. Asking people not to strip down to their birthday suits really isn’t that much of an imposition.


#9

Is this a thing elsewhere? I’ve never seen pictures of naked people next to Old Faithful (which at least would make an interesting statement). Or topless atop the Grand Tetons.


#10

What’s important here is that they were disrespectful to the locals sensibilities. Even though they are being detained for upsetting a mountain and thereby causing an earthquake.

Some people don’t appreciate your loony left, Democratic nakedness! Now God hates you and is killing people with earthquakes. Won’t somebody think of the children!


#11

Rude as the happy selfies at Auschwitz??? How is taking a picture, meant for your friends and families, rude because you’re “happy” in the picture? Is someone forcing you to view the picture–prying your eyes open with toothpicks to make you look? I’d find enforced, affected somberness every-single-moment you’re at some designated “serious place” to be more distasteful and “rude” than a smiling picture of a teenager any day. Though, (Godwin alert) the people that built Auschwitz might not agree with that kind of nod to personal liberties over mob-think.

JonS

It’s their culture, so they get to say what’s offensive to them–agreed. In fact they can say they’re offended all they want, but my level of caring ends within my own goddamn camera, and unless they’re breaking laws (which granted may be the case here in terms of public nudity), or being overtly offensive to people who have no choice but to watch (which doesn’t seem to be the case here), how dare anyone tell me how I’m supposed to behave in a personal photograph? So tired of shit, illogical, totalitarian behavior getting a pass because it might be offensive to someone.


#12

Won’t somebody think of the mountain!?


#13

What? I just don’t… ~sighs~

You seem to be really misreading or misunderstanding what I’m saying. I’m not disparaging a culture, I’m advocating a basic human right and human dignity. I’m pointing out that human nudity is not disrespectful, it is universal, we are all naked at birth and under our clothing. Our bodies are who we are.

Also, it is a huge mistake to think that any culture is unanimous or homogenous, I’d never assume any culture isn’t much more rich and diverse then you are giving them credit for being, nor that any culture doesn’t have aspects where they could do better on human rights, every culture is constantly evolving and changing. Culture is not a free pass to impose on the human rights of others.

Their culture doesn’t include people visiting from other countries that aren’t part of their culture. Some of them are trying to impose their ideas/culture onto people that do not share in that which is a huge red flag imho and where this line of logic goes wrong. Choosing what you do for/to yourself is very different then imposing your choice/beleifs onto others.

If you substitute nudity with a number of other human rights the same argument gets very shaky…
What if this was the middle east and a lack of rain was being blamed on some western women visitors who didn’t cover their faces and they were being detained and prevented from leaving the country? This argument falls apart quickly when you start to substitute different scenarios into it.

I find this to be a really poor argument, these people weren’t posing naked to intentionally disrespect the mountain, it is being claimed that their nakedness itself was disrespectful to a mountain. The mountain doesn’t share any human cultural biases. These hikers were in the middle of the wilderness, and their guide was the only other person besides themselves exposed and he could choose to close his eyes if he felt offended. These are key differences that are absolutely crucial. That and to go one step further, freedom, whether freedom of speech, freedom of expression, freedom of body, doesn’t preclude individuals who choose make expressions you happen to find distasteful. Just because your personal bias makes you find something distasteful doesn’t make the action itself distasteful, that is the “taste” part of distasteful…it isn’t a universal fact (even within a culture), it is more of a personal, person to person, preference. Just because one is uncomfortable with the way another person chooses to express a right doesn’t mean they have the right to take away that persons right.

Exactly. These people are now having their personal freedom jeopardized with possible retaliatory threat to their persons because of a superstitious subset of the culture in the country they were visiting is blaming them for a natural phenomena that they in no way caused. Throw them in the volcano to appease the volcano gods isn’t really an appropriate response in the modern world regardless of ones cultural heritage.

agreed.


#15

All cultures are doing it wrong. I see plenty of room for improvement everywhere.


#16

This is why I never go . . . outside. Others are dangerous.


#17

#Photograph of people taken by someone not in the photograph ≠ Selfie


#18

Nobody’s arguing that they don’t. Just as they have the right to say what’s offensive to them, other people have the right to not only express an opinion that it’s stupid to be offended by whatever offends them, but to utterly ignore them and their desire to not be offended.

Some people are offended by the use of the word “goddamn.” Some Native Americans were offended when we went to the moon. White bigots were offended when folks from the North told them they needed to end Jim Crow. Some folks were offended by Monty Python’s “Life of Brian.”

As Stephen Fry so eloquently responds to people who feel offended, “Well, so fucking what?”


#19

And yet … you’re the one insisting that they obey your culture. Ironic, no?

Sure it does. Do you take your shoes off at certain sites, or are you all just “fuck it, not my culture. I’ma keep my shoes on!

Well, I’d say you’re already on very shaky ground (NPI) in insisting that public nudity is somehow a universal human right. But you’re also reading rather more into what I wrote than what I wrote. I said “Asking people not to strip down to their birthday suits really isn’t that much of an imposition.” I’m not going to endorse clitoral circumcisions, or slavery, or child sex on the grounds of ‘respect all elements of all cultures’. Just keep your damn clothes on when people ask.

Anthropomorphism is a thing. In all cultures. You might want to look into it next time before you’re all “hurr durr. Look at the stupid darkies, thinking the mountain has feelings.”

By the by, since you keep ducking it; Auschwitz has exactly as many feelings at Kinabalu. Naked happy snaps there - ok or not ok?

Well, that’s just not true is it? You weren’t there, but feel free to add your opinion. Neither was I, and so do I. Furthermore … “oh, stop being a prude - just shut your eyes!” Really? See no evil, hear no evil, say no evil is your argument? If a man strips naked in Times Square, but there’s no one around to see it, was he still naked?

I don’t particularly find nudity distasteful, and I’m not overly a fan of religion. But, you know, there’s a time and place. Janet Jackson getting her tits out during the superbowl? Yeah … no thanks. Teachers teaching naked at my kids school? Yeah … no thanks. Getting your junk out in certain places, like on top of a particular mountain or in the vatican? Yeah … no thanks.


#20

Sure. Just don’t tell people their beliefs are arse in their own lounge.


#21

Yes yes, a selfie is currently a picture of a person taken by the person.

But note - S-E-L-F-I

What other words begin thus?

This too applies.