If/when Newsom loses the recall, and Feinstein dies in office (which seems to be her plan) he’ll be on the fast track to the Senate. Count on it.
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More importantly though if we are at the receiving end of similar criticism from within our own ranks that does not imply that something is not really wrong with the GOP.
The thing is: the GOP just backed a coup attempt to overthrow our actual election and install a dictator. No one else has done that. There’s no real point in caring about anything else either IMO. That has now actually happened. That’s an objective enough measure for me from here on out.
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What I’m looking for is objective evidence that the level of decay in their party is unprecedented and not happening to us. It’s pretty much impossible to put aside your bias when it comes to politics.
Sounds like you’re asking that others ‘prove a negative.’
There is no such ‘guarantee’, as power always tends to corrupt.
That said, one party is clearly leaning hard into fascism and the pursuit and facilitation of an autocratic dictatorship, and that’s why there is no actual equivalence to be had.
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Cool story!
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People killed in coup attempts by Republicans: 5
People killed in coup attempts by Democrats: 0
How is that not objective evidence that one party has something particularly wrong with it? If you want to talk about not being able to put aside bias in politics, well…one of the worst of those biases is refusal to consider that the parties might not be the same. You do yourself no favors by ignoring the evidence of your eyes and ears.
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Sure. You & I can agree that what happened on Jan 6th was a coup attempt. But if I try to present that as evidence to a typical Republican, they will laugh in my face. They will deny that it was a coup, they will say that it was antifa and BLM trying to make them look bad, whatever.
On the other hand, I can point out to a Republican that people in their own party are saying that the party has lost its way, and that the same thing is not happening on the left.
one of the worst of those biases is refusal to consider that the parties might not be the same.
Who said I’m refusing to consider that they might not be the same? I believe in no uncertain terms that the Republican party has gone way off the deep end. This is not about what I believe. It’s about evidence that I think might be convincing to someone on the other side.
Ah, I see. That’s very different from objective evidence. There is plenty of objective evidence that Jan 6 was a coup attempt, that climate change is real and caused by our CO2 emissions, that Covid-19 is a real virus and that vaccines and masks help prevent it from killing people. All of those have been denied by Republicans.
Frankly, I’m not sure that evidence that will convince someone willing to deny evidence right in front of them is a reasonable thing to ask for.
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There’s not much point in trying to change people who you don’t know well enough or have enough of a relationship with for them to be more than a “typical” republican to be totally honest from my pov. Like I don’t know that evidence even matters. People will be in denial as long as they damned well want and some are really invested in overthrowing the US at this point.
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Again, while suffering from its own corrupt players and opportunists, “the left” is still not the side actively attempting to tear apart the very fabric of our so-called democracy.
Your apparent goal of ‘swaying the minds’ of people who are already deeply entrenched in their own toxic feedback loop is likely to fail, no matter what ‘evidence’ may be presented.
There is no magic wand that will suddenly make other people change their minds and start behaving like decent human beings who care about more than just themselves.
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If that’s what you’re actually looking for, it’s a pointless task. A key part of the dysfunction amongst Republicans is that they’re actively and willfully denying reality. Until the consequences of their denial impact them personally (and frequently not even then) nothing you say will convince them
Progressives and especially liberals (AKA what a senior Cheney Regency official sneeringly called the “reality-based community”) have long believed that presenting right-wingers with reasoned arguments based in facts and empirical evidence will sway them. It won’t.
You may be operating on the assumption that slick, well-crafted ads by moneyCons and neoCons like this one are working to change the minds of the GOP voters. They’re not.*
Finally, if you don’t care about Republicans at all and you’re asking if similarly framed ads could be used to change the minds of people in the progressive and/or establishment wings of the Dems in their own intramural debates, the answer is only to a limited degree in the context of primary contests. The Dem establishment is highly flawed, but they’re not denying reality or engaging in cult-like activity in the way these ads are pointing out the GOP is.
[* Lately I’ve decided that the real target audience of these ads is big-money GOP donors. Unfortunately, a lot of them have either also drunk the MAGA Kool aid or cynically believe that continuing to pander to the Know-Nothings 27% is the best way forward.]
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I don’t quite understand why the democratic party should or could have a big money project trying to keep it honest and progressive. The big money media try to push the other way.
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Please. Evidence mattering to the typical Republican. I need empirical proof that this has been an effective strategy over the last decade.
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If you are truly looking for arguments that might work with right wingers, Beau might be able to help.
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Renting out one’s body for survival is a far cry from selling one’s soul for power.
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Party Of Grift?
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Nope.
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Asked and answered, dude.
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I don’t think it is unprecedented. Political parties have melted down or fractured before, and things have certainly been worse politically than this. There was a civil war, after all, and America had a substantial Nazi sympathizer group during WW2 that very nearly became a viable political party.
The exact combination of factors that we have here (a major party turning fascist in the United States) is probably unique, but every political time is unique in its own way.
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