I have a friend who has met and charmed many a lass with his crooner version of Gin And Juice.
That sounds like normal honesty to me. Honesty both to self and other. There are definitely real benefits to monogamous relationships. But I think that assuming monogamy, as opposed to actually agreeing upon it, tends to be problematic. Many (if not most) people cheat at some time or other, and many know that they will cheat and pledge monogamy anyway because they feel they are expected to!
These strike me as being culturally-specific problems which I find disagreeable - impossible - for a number of reasons. I do not believe in the Euro/Colonial “nuclear family”, and prefer communal/tribal family organization. If we agree to communal sharing of resources and parenting responsibilities, then that is our own business, and there is no just reason for The State to say otherwise. In fact, I would go so far as to say that most family law exists for the purposes of forcing people to have nuclear families. It causes serious problems for those who do not use property nor money.
I value asceticism, so for me commitment tends to be easy. The trick/trap seems to be negotiating an actual commitment between the participants rather than using a pre-made one. Like your example of people changing over time - why not agree to a marriage which lasts a year, or ten, or twenty years? Because nobody else does it? Well, you two aren’t marrying everybody else, so why should that matter? Many dismiss “marriage as contract” as being unromantic and impersonal, but I see it as quite the opposite. Most marriages are merely contracts which are drafted by The State rather than the participants.
Thank you, it is nice to know that you think so.
But I make a different impression in person, apparently! Because I am not socialized the usual way, many get a gut feeling about me that I am feral and extremely dangerous. At my previous job I was saddened to hear that the office gossip compared me to Hannibal Lechter (!), in that I seemed a bit cultured and considerate, but that I could not be trusted because I had an inner core of violence and criminality. And people get this just by laying eyes upon me! In text and via telephone I tend to make a decent impression. And people tell me that I look good. But most people seem to find something immediately incongruous about my appearance and mannerisms, as contrasted against how I write and speak. It’s as if I am a resident of uncanny valley. People who have known me for years IRL gradually concede that I may be as respectful as I seem. Good grief!
As we talked through it she finally came to understand (and this took a looking time) that yes, she has the rights and the agency to.pursue happiness in any way she sees fit.
I also have the right to not be in an open marriage I didn’t know about.
So at this point, given family law, I will still be around in sickness and health, rich or poor. Basically I still have at least a 17 year commitment
But she deserves to be happy in an emotionally full way. And in kind of a strange way, I already have.
Ironically given this thread is, “Japhroaig Unveils the Sekret To Smexy Love” I have no desire to follow my own advice (well not a second time). I’ve had the love of my life, and its @actionabe’s, @popobawa4u’s, @nimelennar’s, @shaddack’s, @anon85905360’s turn.
It takes time, it takes work, but it is worth it
It’s a contract, its a contract, its a contract… And it is a set of promises.
The after parties are usually a ton of fun though.
It’s funny you mention the Hannibal lecter comparison. I don’t receive that IRL, but I intimidate the hell out of people. For example, people apologize to me in grocery stores. Like every time. And new aquaitences often think I am violent.
That is till they see me gently tending the flower beds, taking care of their kids or animals, or without question/hesitation/complaint help them with something really hard. That is what usually flips the switch–he is a weirdo, but he’d take a bullet for you (well not literally, I’d improvise a method so the bullet was never fired in the first place).
Honestly, I have mixed feelings about marriage, even though I am very happy in mine. Especially when there are no children involved, you have a choice to release your wife that could give both of you greater happiness in the longer term. Nobody wants to make someone they love miserable. We actually had a clause about faithfulness to God in our vows. When I lost my faith four years later, I had to admit that this was impossible to meet and be prepared to let her leave me rather than hurting each other other for no good reason. In the end we got past it, but I would rather have split up than ruin both of our lives.
I’m not familiar with family law. How does it apply here if she initiated the separation and is basically reneging on her side of the commitment? In any case, I meant that according to standard vows, you both have a duty to stick together even if one of you is sick (or has ED) or one of you gets laid off and the other doesn’t have the life they had before or could have with someone else. Whether that’s practical in individual circumstances is another case, but if marriage law is as strict as people say, this will be my last marriage whatever happens. It’s a corporate, legal and binding contract where you have responsibility for the other person’s happiness in the face of unknown future (and ED is way down on the list of things that could go wrong), and I’m not sure how compatible that is with modern thinking about relationships.
Oregon is a no fault state. Anyone can initiate for any reason–toe nail color, armed robbery, nuclear assault–doesn’t matter. When you pass the ten year mark, it is all basically the same.
What I mean is that you were saying you still had at least a 17 year commitment. Do you mean the past 17 years? If so, how do you mean that you will still be around in sickness and health, rich or poor?
######I think he may be referring to their progeny.
I will have a responsibility to provide economically for basically 10-17 years, based on Oregon law. And since she is still my best friend, I ain’t just gonna walk out with a C-Ya!! My divorced parents of 20 years still talk and take care of each other when they need to.
I’ve left acrimony and blame at the door. I walked into a committed relationship knowing all the risks, and I’ll be damned if I don’t see them through
All the best to you both - it wasn’t that I was suggesting that you should be bitter, it’s just a little difficult for me to imagine leaving for that reason. In the end the marriage agreement was between the two of you, so it’s a little tyrannical to have a contract that the parties can’t change later by mutual agreement.
We have been to individual counseling, couples counseling, we have had a dialog for two years, and a million other fucked up things I won’t get into.
But it boils down to she wants me, and a couple other dudes. I don’t. So I can continue to pay her student loans, pay the mortgages, provide health insurance, and lend a shoulder/sawzall/plumbing expertise. And she can be emotionally fulfilled by someone else.
But I refuse to be in a marriage where one party gets to do whatever they want, and the other isn’t allowed (yeah, we had that talk too).
OK, that makes a lot more sense. You can get through a lot if you’re moving in the same direction, but otherwise you’re just working against each other a lot of the time. (It’s funny, for us it turned out that religion wasn’t actually that core in our relationship - we respect each other now more than before, and we never agreed on theology in the first place).
I just hope the young’ens here come away with a core set of ideas on how to be happy with someone.
- Be honest with yourself. If you are a serial dater and don’t want commitment, that’s great! Just be honest.
- if you can’t attract the mate of your dreams, the problem isn’t you, but it is how people see you. Be deliberate when deciding your needs and wants, and you will find love.
- Confidence. Fake it till you make it.
- Honesty, but not overshare. (My sister in law makes people look at her poop. “Yes, I believe it looks just like a swan, I don’t want to see it!”)
Oh, and for the dudes, Old Spice original formula. Know your flowers. Listen, listen, listen. And always have a few good feghoots memorized as an ice breaker.
Feel free to alter the title
She may not have the stage presence of the others, but Old Spice was always my favourite.
Sorry in advance for being off-topic but the new thread title made me laugh so much I snorted (maybe I’m too easily amused or maybe because it’s 6.30am here and I haven’t slept yet?).
That’s a seriously awesome picture!
There’s a sub for that?
Oh, this day is now officially lost.
I should close this thread just to ensure no person may come away from this BBS with HOW-TO ideas about romance.
Asking someone to coffee or food is hard and gender specific?
As if there was any other way to play!
People have only killed over two instruments: badly played bag pipes and an out of tune hurdy gurdy (according to my hurdy gurdy playing ex!).
Just had to throw that in.
And I agree that confidence is important. My (current) spouse says nothing drives away a dating partner faster than the scent of desperation. That’s a quote.