I doubt it’s the main answer. For most of these abusers, it’s clearly more the kick they get out of thinking they’re being see as powerful. They don’t have to do this kind of shit to get laid.
Similarly, you’ve heard, I hope, that rape isn’t about sex, it’s about power? Think about the parallel, please.
No, I’ve been asking why you pointed that out, why you think it’s helpful to do so. I still don’t think you’ve convincingly answered the latter. It’s helpful because some clueless dudes don’t realize that shit sometimes gets a woman in bed with someone like Freeman? Ok, and…?
Seems to me all pointing that is going to get any such clueless guys to actually do is think, “hmm, so that shit actually works sometimes? Maybe I should try it!”
To say rape is about power and not sex is kind of one of those throwaway phrases I think dramatically oversimplifies things. Of course rape is about power. Channeled through the medium of sexuality.
But do I think sometimes creepy dudes just stay creepy because it’s actually worked for them – and yes, a little bit of a power play, to boot? Yes, I do believe that this happens.
If men were all totally clueless manipulatable idiots, maybe? I like to think the bb boards are less attractive to this type.
And listen, we’re obviously free to disagree. I think we’ve reached that point of the conversation. I’d just prefer it – which you are free to ignore, of course – if you would avoid insinuating that I might have some ulterior motive for pointing out something that you seem to think is obvious to everyone, and I do NOT think is obvious to everyone.
I’ll add The Rock and Dave Grohl to the list of rich folk I hope aren’t creeps. Heck, it would be even better if the people I think are probably creeps turned out not to be.
I feel sad for folks who work on projects that are then tainted because the star or director turned out to be an arsehole; partially because everyone’s work gets thrown in chipper, and partially because they had to work with the arsehole. I don’t how we can divorce the project from the taint.
If you work in or are connected enough with the entertainment industry you quickly learn who are the reviled creeps and who are the good guys who go out of their way to help people. The difference now is that a creep’s reputation is no longer an open secret within the industry but will likely be outed by #metoo.
If anyone thinks that the stuff we’ve seen so far is horrific (and it is), as the showbiz saying goes “you ain’t seen nothing yet.” Next up will be the powerful and protected child molesters who preyed on young performers for years.
How about looking the person in the face and asking “Would you like to get some coffee with me sometime? I’d like to get to know you better.” Or “May I take you out to dinner or on a date next weekend?”
If the answer is no, don’t ask again. If they are interested and just busy, they will ask about a different date. If they are not sure they are interested, but later decide they are, they will come back to you and ask about getting that coffee.
No leering. No “hey, want to fuck?” No touching. Don’t stare at his/her breasts/ass/crotch. Ask honestly and respectfully. Never ask someone you either have power over or are perceived to have power over. If you are someone very famous or influential, this shrinks your choices. But that is a price paid for fame and power. Also, if you are famous and influential, you probably don’t need to approach anyone. The people interested in you will approach you.
If casual sex is your thing, there are apps and clubs and bars where people go for that.
For some reason I already thought the guy was kind of a creep, but I can’t remember what prompted that. I seem to think that there were rumblings of something like this a few years ago, and maybe people just kind of ignored it.
It’s different strokes for different folks… some people ( men AND women ) get down with overt sexual come ons, some don’t.
These types of comments and behavior have worked for him in the past and he has been rewarded with sexual encounters over the years, by women who were happy about it.
Maybe he’s just a guy that really likes sex.
How is calling him a “Creep” different than calling a women that really likes sex a “Slut”?
As long as he stopped if the women did not reciprocate interest, then no harm no foul.
There was a time when I was younger when I was grateful that there were so many clods out there who didn’t understand the basic and common-sense advice you provide here; it made things much easier for me with women.
However, after a while enough of those women told me the same story about how bloody tiresome and draining all that clumsy machismo and clueless “flirting” was that I no longer saw it as a benefit for anyone – including the chest-beating schmoes and Don Juan-a-bees who sink into bitter misogyny because they never get laid.
Yeah but if you pay attention to the details of his encounters, it looks like he didn’t stop.
This also happened in work settings, typically where he’s a star, and male, and thus the women he treated this way were doubly subordinated. His sexual come-ons thus constituted sexual harassment.
If such things happened at say, a nightclub, I’d give what you’re saying more credence. And if you’d still like to insist that what he did in professional contexts is okay, then I hope your workplace does sexual harassment training.
There is nothing wrong with liking sex. Nothing wrong with seeking sex. He isn’t a creep for liking or wanting sex, but for imposing himself on women he should have treated with more respect and professionalism. He should have noticed he was making those women uncomfortable and cut it the fuck out. He wasn’t flirting, he was creeping. He should have realized he was in a position of power over them in a professional sense and and it was inappropriate and creepy to act the way he did. And even if he wasn’t in a position of power, he should have paid attention and realized he was creeping them out
Asking someone out for coffee or a date or whatnot isn’t a pretense, even if all the person really wants is casual sex. It is a way to respectfully signal “hey, I’m interested in you” without be a fucking creep or sexually assaulting someone. If all he wanted was sex, ask about the coffee first, let the other person signal they are interested in seeing more of you. Or interested in you at all. Then, once you know they are interested, you can be more flirty, be more overt. You can take the damned time to have a coffee and start setting out your expectations and what you want to happen so they have a chance to decide if they are interested.
That too much bloody work? The person just wants a partner to have fun no-strings sex? Use an app, go to a bar or club or some place like that where people go to seek out that sort of relationship. No one owes anyone else their attention, their care, or their body. No matter how famous or powerful or male. This is a problem. Men seem to think a women who is doing her job or shopping for groceries or walking down the street is available for sex or interested in the man seeking her attention. She isn’t. She is living her life. She doesn’t owe anyone her attention. It’s the fucking least a man can do to respectfully signal he is interested in her romantically or sexually before subjecting her to overt sexual come ons.
