That’s a huge assumption.
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Donald Trump has been married three times.
I’m not sure what that has to do with me noting that you assume lots of women would want to go to bed with Leo DiCaprio? Because it supposedly shows (plenty, as you say) women are attracted to powerful men inherently?
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I think maybe he (?) means that it’s somehow as worth pointing out that SOME women really are attracted to powerfully predatory men (to which I say, Well duh) as it to point out that depicting women as immediately, unnaturally attracted by the invasive advances of powerfully predatory men promulgates rape culture?
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Sure, that’s likely true. Doesn’t change rape culture, though, right?
Would you like the clarify you’re meaning, @L_Mariachi? I think we both found your comment obscure enough to not get your meaning.
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Okay, here’s what I think, although I don’t know if this is close to what L_ is trying to put across.
There are women in this world who will put up being touched by men who are powerful, even if said men aren’t attractive to them. Why? Because they are turned on by the power more than they’re repelled by the man; because they fear the power more than they’re repelled by the man. And by “turned on”, I don’t necessarily mean sexually so, although I’m sure that can occur as well.
However, I think it’s a pretty safe bet to say that that type of female is in the minority. Personally, I don’t give a flying fuck how attractive and/or powerful ANYone is, don’t approach me in an aggressive manner.
I’ve been groped out of fear by a male in high school; I’d pretty much forgotten about the incident until now. I’d been cutting class, and the scooter cops were out on a rout. I jumped a fence of a yard across the street from the school, as did a male student that I didn’t know. We were quiet, then he told me to let him feel me up or he bust on me to the cops. He was bigger than I. So…ah, crap, you know the rest.
Doesn’t matter, in any of the situations where I was sexually assaulted, what I coulda/shoulda/woulda done - because I didn’t, and they’re in the past.
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With a bit of luck, the Great Pumpkin-colored one will not rise on the day foretold; and by the 8th he will be going all soft and squishy…
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@Lucy_Gothro explained it. I don’t doubt such women are in the minority, but however many/few of them are willing to endure Trump’s “affections,” there are more who would put up with that kind of treatment from a younger better-looking rich guy. I don’t think it’s a huge assumption at all that Leo DiCaprio doesn’t leave a party by himself unless he wants to.
@milliefink is wrong that I think pointing this out is equally important to calling out depictions that advance rape culture. It’s just a detail not to overlook.
@L_Mariachi, @milliefink, @Mindysan33, @ActionAbe, this is another “forest v. tree” argument, isn’t it? The scene in isolation doesn’t condone sexual assault. But taken in the context of attitudes at large, it can be one more voice telling powerful men that this behavior is ok, and telling women to shut up and take it.
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I’d argue that it’s part of a larger wave of culture that minimizes women as agents of their own sexuality and asserts that we are merely acted upon sexually. So I’m not sure I’d put it in terms of the forest v. trees. These trees make up the forest for how we understand sexuality and the relationships between men and women.
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Why? I mean, why is not pointing it out, yet again, “overlooking” it? It’s not as if people don’t already know it. I still don’t get why it’s supposedly worth pointing out in the first place, unless to deny or deflect from the significance of what was instead being pointed out.
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I think it does, but art is weird that way. I don’t think it’s just a matter of opinion, but I’m not going to pretend that there aren’t other ways to look at it. The only thing I know for certain is that Scorsese’s intent doesn’t matter, because art is released to the world for us to interpret as we please and Bradbury can weep oceans of tears that no one gets Fahrenheit 451 and it doesn’t matter because his book is about censorship now, whether he likes it or not. That being said, we moved well beyond the art, and the point that @L_Mariachi is now trying to make actually affirms my interpretation of the scene: It perpetuates the idea that a certain class of man can “grab pussy” without objection. They’ve effectively moved away from the idea that I’m misinterpreting the scene, and have leapt wholeheartedly into arguing about whether it reflects a reality. Which is now what @milliefink, @Mindysan33 and @Lucy_Gothro have moved on to challenging: The myth that male power is as powerful a dynamic as… well as the scene from The Aviator would have you believe.
And thus my work was done for me.
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It is true that some victims wait out the violation if they don’t feel they have a better option.
That’s not the same thing as a woman actively agreeing to become physical with him.
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Yes, absolutely. That’s what I meant by “taken in context…” i.e. the “forest”—but you put it better for sure.
I read cigarette girl’s face as “objection” and I think the scene is probably not too far off from a dramatization of some of the reactions we’ve been hearing about from Trump’s victims: shock, then playing along in panic until they could get away.
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And he raped one of them (that we know of), so “my wife” comments are even more contextually gross.
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It’s why someone would point that out beyond the “duh”, they’re obviously making a specific point and not using it as an isolated observation. The issue is that they’re suggesting that the people who state that they didn’t want it must be lying or exaggerating because there are people who “respond” to such behavior.
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