My experience is that Inflammatory language divides people and makes the bigger problems harder to solve. I hope it stops. It probably won’t. Trump sure won’t stop, and it will be one of the prongs of his ruin, along with lying, cheating, misogyny, ignorance and vanity.
And HE went on to become vice-president. I admit, it’s not “motherfucker”, but somehow i don’t think that that’s the most salient difference.
Edited to add: Also, i don’t particularly feel obligated to search out other examples (no matter how easy *cough* 45 *cough* it may be), because i am not arguing that vulgarity is a good strategy, merely point out that you are implicitly claiming the reverse without giving justification.
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as opposed to the angry tweets they would have done anyway. at least it’ll take up air that would otherwise be used for blaming iran, china, or mexico for all of our ills.
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So you’re going with Cheney and Trump? No further questions.
Profanity is grounds for discipline in courts, workplaces, schools, sports, on and on. In many countries public swearing will get you in the clink. If you called me an MF on this BBS, you’d get booted. I don’t feel obligated to search out proof it’s bad in politics, but if it was successful it would be ubiquitous and no longer newsworthy.
Meanwhile, our president can say whatever shitty, racist, sexist thing that pops into his head…
I’m just sick of double standards, sorry. I’m tired of having to be twice as good as a man to get half the respect they do. I’m especially sick of seeing women of color treated that way. I’m fucking exhausted of all that, especially having to say these things to OUR side.
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That’s the problem in a nutshell, yo; you’re making this all about your perspective, above everyone else’s. Trying to dictate how others “should” express themselves, especially historically marginalized and persecuted people, just alienates the very folks whose side you claim to be on.
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“Rootless cosmopolitans” has so much more style and is more pithy. A shame Stalin ruined it for you lot.
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How is it a double standard? Trump does it and we agree it makes him look bad. Most people don’t do it. Isn’t it just a standard?
She is not the one with power. But when you say “she needs to be more respectful or polite”, you are using the tools always used to keep people in line.
Politeness doesn’t benefit those with less power, only those with more. Sure, it may seem like you get more when they hand you a crumb, but the reality is that they’re using that crumb to keep you from getting all you deserve. “Please, sir, I want some more,” didn’t work in Dickens’ day and sure as hell doesn’t work now. Yet that seems to be what you think Tlaib and the rest of us ought to do.
Women didn’t get the vote by being polite. Civil rights didn’t happen because black people asked nicely. It happened because people realised that being nice and polite got them nothing.
Being polite and civil is what got us into this mess. If saying a few "motherfucker"s will stand a shot at getting us out, we should be screaming it at the top of our lungs.
Oh, and telling a woman not to swear? Why don’t you just go all the way and tell her to smile more?
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How am I trying to dictate? I think I’m trying to discuss. Of course I’m expressing my opinion, this is a comments thread, not a wiki.
My opinion is that when politicians call other politicians they need to work with nasty names, they do so at a cost to their credibility and collegiality, reducing their ability and the ability of the entire body to reach consensus and solutions.
Can we discuss? Or is my opinion wrong and shouldn’t be discussed?
Great example, and I hope we get lots more. For the former PM of Canada there’s little political cost. For a new member of the US House of Representatives on their first day there’s potentially a higher cost.
As I said above, after @anon61221983 helped me see a little more clearly, the cost/benefit could be different than I had thought at first. The risk makes more sense to me. Maybe this is how it works out, by inspiring others outside our government to speak up, changing the temperature inside. Kind of like melting chocolate in a double boiler.
Except that’s not what I said.
Look, my dude, you posted this picture.
So you understand that selective obscenity is an effective way to make a forceful point.
People are talking about Rashida Tlaib, by name. Stories are being written that don’t focus Trump as the central actor that needs 100% of the reader’s attention.
This dynamic happening to someone other than Trump is more positive now than it is negative.
Trump won people over by monopolizing attention. Every argument about his incivility was a net win for him.
Democrats having some firebrand moments is to the good. Don’t worry, they won’t all be brave and outspoken, but having a few helps set the direction of the conversation.
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You keep insisting that this fresh new politician will now suffer a “cost” for cursing, and that she should have been more mindful of that cost before cursing.
What cost are you talking about? How in particular do you think this is going to hurt her, or the causes that she’s fighting for?
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What happened to respect and courtesy like in the old days? /s
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Reminders…
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And you’ve gotten your opinion out there, and other opposing opinions have been raised, but the thing i’m not seeing here is DATA. Can you give me reason to accept that your opinion is the correct one, that reducing vulgarity increases effectiveness. Because that’s what you seemed to be arguing at the start, not that it’s impolite, which is the reason that courts et al discipline the behavior
And i do feel that i must insist on data as “common sense” such as
is only convincing if you believe that human beings are logical thinkers. We’re not, not naturally, and so our systems do not react logically.
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