He should go with these.
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Loki as a character is ridiculously popular, and it isn’t because he was created for the male gaze.
Loki is incredibly sexy and charismatic and while I’m sure plenty of men find him irresistible, he has “female gaze” written all over his pretty face.
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I MEAN COME ON. So pretty. Listen to all those screams. Lots of women and girls.
That’s not really his fault. He has to wear “angry pants” the same way other people might wear “fat pants,” but he has to wear them all the time or risk running around butt naked the first time he gets an unrequested perfume sample at the mall.
@Brainspore Yoga pants exist. And I bet Mark Ruffalo would look great in them!
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(To be fair, we are still talking about some hetero-normative stuff…)
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Dinglephobium.
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For this awesome comment, you get a beer (animated gif).
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Sorry… I’m out of likes all, you all get gifs instead…
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Whole lot of squee going on there!
I enjoy reading Game of Thrones, but I don’t think it can get a free pass on any of the characteristics that are being criticised in the case of comics, and even more so for the TV series. If anything I think that the TV series is worse because it seems to have been passed through a filter of modern mainstream sexual mores and conceits which undermine the depiction of the female characters - i.e. exactly the sort of gender stereotyping that we’re uncomfortable with - and there is plenty of that in the books too. I think that most of the characters are fairly ‘stock’ - of both genders - and I wonder how much that is due to its origin in genre fiction.
I guess the sexposition happened because these scenes are so striking in the books, and it had worked so well publicity-wise in several other shows such as Rome. I don’t have a problem with it in principle although I’m not always happy with the power dynamic depicted.
TBH I think that picking on him for being a newb is like complaining that the Exxon Valdez was painted a non-regulation colour.
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(To be fair, we are still talking about some hetero-normative stuff…)
I think the Marvel movies sometimes push that a little bit, though. I think outside of the printed comics, and talking instead about movies, Marvel does a pretty decent job with diversity. And I think they cater pretty strongly to the female gaze and the gay male gaze. I mean look at Thor and Loki. Even Iron Man is a pretty boy.
Go to about 11:45 in this super-fun short. “Not here, baby.”
And the women are all dressed sensibly! Even Pepper Potts – no massive amounts of cleavage, and while the cut-offs are sexy, they are also practical and very easy to relate to. Black Widow is in a skin tight outfit, but there is no over-abundance of cleavage or stomach. Again, sexy but practical, and it fits well with her character.
And what about Sif? Sexy, yes, but strong. There is no way this character wasn’t at least in part inspired by Xena (which has a huge lesbian fan-base, and often winked about that). Her costumes are again, sexy but in a very realistic way that gives you a sense of her power.
I adore Sif. Her voice makes me feel funny. 
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Well, yes, much of books like GOT are really about modern mores. I think that’s obvious.
Can you give me an example of that? Specifically? I see them as pushing against their limitations, which includes a deeply sexist society. I think it’s more important to depict people struggle with the sexism in their societies in fiction than it is to depict a society where perfect equality exists. Not that that wouldn’t also be an interesting book to read, but I like the characters and how they struggle within their limitations.
I find the characters much more richly realized than many other fantasy series. Terry Pratchett also used what could be considered stock characters, yet they were good, well written characters. I think the same with Pratchett.
I think that was specifically put in to bring in viewers, male ones. I don’t find the sex in the book to be nearly so in your face in the same way (though good god, there is plenty of fucking).
There’s a difference. When I watch this, or any TV show, I don’t go around rating butts. Or boobs. It’s pretty strange that you would do this.
I thought the hetero-normative female gaze is still underrepresented.
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I wasn’t trying to pick on “JollyWombat”, or impose any regulations. What I was hoping to do was point out the contrast which often happens of people signing up on BB specifically to troll a discussion on a pet issue of theirs. Which, on this site, usually involves topics which are nominally about sex, gender, and representation - nearly every single time. By “trolling” I mean that they often don’t so much articulate their own opinion, but rather show up to complain that others have opinions in a discussion which they claim should not occur in the first place. Which is why I found the comment about being invited to social gatherings to be humorous. FWIW I don’t have any problems with being civilized enough to hear out people with opinions I find disagreeable.
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Sure, but it’s still hetero-normative, right? It still leaves out a whole lotta people, and assumes a norm of sexual attraction, right?
Oh, please. Most humans find other humans attractive, and there’s nothing wrong with noticing attractive people. Men AND women.
That said, I was in a flirty mood with the guy I’m seeing and we were talking via text while I was re-watching The Avengers last week. We both have a thing for butts so it just kind of happened during a our conversation and I thought it was kind of funny, and I wanted to lighten the conversation up a bit. There’s nothing wrong with finding people sexy and talking about that. (Plus, all of their bums are very, very nice, in their very own way. And if you really can deny that Captain America has a really great butt, I will eat my hat.)
Also, as a woman, my context is different. What I find sexy and my desires, as a woman, are often ignored or out-right fought against. There is something to be said about the subversive nature of creating content for the female gaze, and for women speaking openly about what THEY find sexy and desirable.
Think Broad City or, Tina Belcher.
Plus, I really just wanted to talk about how sexy and pretty Loki is. And, my LARGER point, which you didn’t even bother to respond to, was about how the MCU does a good job of not always catering to the straight male gaze. And since I am neither straight, nor male, my opinion was actually relevant, if a bit cheeky (pun totally intended).
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OK, example time. I guess that the one that comes most to mind is the controversial rape in the crypt - Jaime and Cersei Lannister. This wasn’t a rape in the book as far as I remember. However the people working on the TV show decided that it would somehow fit better if Cersei was raped, which is a decision to depict the unambiguous defiling of a woman - and moreover a woman who has unashamedly wielded power. You can argue that it depicts the fact that every person is vulnerable, and that’s true, but I feel there is an implied threat to women who seek power in there; and moreover I suspect that it’s the values of the people working on the show that influenced them in this direction. It’s normalised in fictional media for powerful women (whether good or evil) to be confounded and controlled by men - whether as a punishment for hubris, to provide a need to be rescued, or both. Again, not limited to GOT - I find it immensely distressing that every film adaptation of Fanny Hill has failed to be as liberal in the depiction of women as the book (which was written in 1748, for fucks sake!)
As for the in-your-face-ness of the sex scenes, I must disagree. I think Martin is like the Jilly Cooper of the swords-and-sorcery crowd.
I am honestly tired of the “this fictional female character was raped/sexually assaulted” trope. It gets over-used in this context, and it’s often clearly men writing about it, not women. As in the case of GOT.
There are other ways to indiciate that a woman has had a tough life. It often comes off very lazy. And it often feels icky, exploitative, and forced (especially when it’s written by a man).
I’m not really into GOT, though, either the books or the show, so I can’t really comment on it specifically too much.
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