You could actually skip watching that scene and pretend it never happened. It literally has no lasting impact on any of the story arcs or character interactions in the show. (Which just goes to show how out-of-place the scene was in the first place, since of course there would be lasting repercussions in real life.)
I can’t recall any other rape scenes in the show except maybe some of the dark shit that goes down at Craster’s Keep, but I may be forgetting some.
Daenarys, in the beginning. I watched that much. (Actually, it’s distressing in the novel as well.)
Ah, I knew I’d probably forgotten at least one. Probably because it wasn’t described as a rape in the book (which, as you say, makes it disturbing in a different way).
As I recall, Khal Drogo isn’t as brutal as she expected, but I thought it was clearly rape. It kind of bothers me that most fans didn’t seem to believe it was, and also that I’m not sure GRRM thought it was.
I’d agree that these are gratuitous, and you will find different versions of most of those characters with more clothes on and it would make a better book/character over all.
Of course there are some characters that their half naked gratuitous look is 1/2+ the reason to buy the book. Red Sonja and Vampirella are two examples. And I guess I don’t have a problem with that, as it is a niche, just like porn comics. These are adult themed and they don’t really pretend they are something they aren’t. At lease in the case of Vampirella, doesn’t she use sex as a weapon? Luring men into her clutches before feeding on them? That makes the outfit sort of appropriate for what it is…
Definitely rape by modern standards, especially since she was 13 or something. But as I recall she was also the one who actually initiated penetration, not Drogo. So all kinds of creepy but not as black-and-white as most of the rape that goes on in GRRM’s universe.
No need to shout.
seriously, dude, get a sense of humor. why are you so sensitive? calm down. no need for the hysterics over a little snark.
You’ve reminded me: 10 years ago I suggested a book to boingboing and Xeni posted it, with a thank-you link to my web site. The book pretty much defines “banal retro pin-up to exploit a particular niche in alt modeling” yet everyone seemed to like it. I still like it and the photographer was pretty influential to me. Have times changed that much in the last decade, or was I wrong to like and suggest the book? Was Xeni wrong to give it a mention on bb? Here’s the link:
It’s sexy and well-done pin-up. I don’t love it, but I like it. It’s cute and kitchsy and fun.
But it’s not really the point of anything that’s being discussed here, though, and it’s still a derail to the larger discussion and it still feels like you’re still trying to play a “GOTCHA!!!” on us but you’re failing. What’s your point? I have a good friend who does porn… we’re not talking about adult, consenting women choosing to do sexy art, or porn. We’re talking about comics largely written by men. It’s a completely different subject, and a totally different context.
I mean, do you have a point? Your friend does kitchsy pin-up. …So?
Everything is a derailment to you. Even the GOT conversation, which I introduced and which was in my opinion extremely productive, is a derailment to you. Here, let me mansplain what my point is:
(2) I don’t accept the assumed, unstated position that objectification, sexualization and nudity are always bad.
So when you say something sexualizes or objectifies I may agree with you, and I may also add, “so what?”
And I never met him. This is not the same person I described earlier as my friend.
I like to use the fairy burlesque club from True Blood as a pretty good example of what strip clubs would look more like in a more egalitarian society. Not only do they have both men and women dancing but the burlesque show is more about cool skills being shown off in a sexy way, with less of the weird “power” vibe that strip tease can have. The entertainers are there to entertain you (and turn you on) but not to give you a power trip.
The dancers in the vamp club are way more about power exchange but that’s a huge trope with vampires.
I have a couple questions that I’d appreciate someone answering for me.
1: So huge muscles on male heroes aren’t exactly sexualizing but isn’t the end effect the same? I.e. feeling inadequate and unhappy with ones body?
2: I’ve heard multiple times that being #yolked is a “male power fantasy”. But what is the female equivalent of that, aesthetically speaking?
The fact that he joined the site 10 hours ago to just talk on this thread says all we need to know.
I wonder if the admins could institute a policy that once you create an account, all comments are moderated (or just not allowed) for the first 72 hours after account creation. That would take care of the same day influx of trolls from reddit and twitter when anything even vaguely progressive is posted on the site.
The GOT was totally derailing, which I admittedly took part in. Can you prove that “everything” is a derailment to me? Um, no. You’re making shit up again.
I don’t accept the assumed, unstated position that objectification, sexualization and nudity are always bad.
No one said that! I mean for fuck’s sake, look at my later comments about The Avenger butts. You and that other guy are still cut from the same cloth, dude.
Christ. Can you at least try?
Try to what?
I also think, maybe naively, that the thing to do is complain about the current state if you don’t like it and maybe you’ll bring about change. But plenty of people already know to complain, and are complaining, so I say, “Great. Carry on.” And when I say that it doesn’t mean I have no idea what my point is, it means I think you are doing exactly the right thing by complaining. But I get to complain too, if I want. Everyone gets to complain. That’s kind of obvious, too, which is why after you complained and I said I wasn’t arguing I didn’t add much more.
Try to converse coherently. I still have no idea what you’re trying to say in relation to this conversation. Yeah so your friend does pin up and some other not half bad pin up stuff you like exists. So? Say something that adds to the conversation at hand, please.
Try to focus more on the actual topic and less on calling people incoherent or mansplaining or any of the numerous other ad hominem attacks I could quote from you in this thread.
