Correct, the real electoral ripoff is happening right now by the billionaires thanks to Citizen’s United.
The zombie urban legend of voter fraud won’t die because it’s to distract us from the real shenanigans going on.
Everything is a debatable subject. Not all of them are occurring at scale.
You’ll have to provide me with evidence of this.
There is only one word – fucked up – for the proliferation of “voter ID” laws. Voter ID laws are protecting the franchise the same way red-state abortion clinic nuisance regulations are protecting the health of the woman.
Just the fact that these voter ID laws mysteriously only appear in red states should be an obvious giveaway. Well, and, the other clue is that: when they add the ID requirements, they almost always reduce or remove Early Voting period– now whyever would they do that, if their goal was the “integrity of the franchise”? (Because they know this statistically affects Democrats more than Republicans.)
They’re so insidious. The GOP powers-that-be do this with complete cynicism. And Republican useful idiots, on TV and on the street, never cease to remind you:
Golly – What Could Be Wrong With A Voter ID Law?!
How Hard Could It Be To Get Voter ID?!
So, Are You In Favor Of Voter Fraud?!
Like every issue the GOP turns on its head (the second amendment, lower taxes, abortion, even climate change), the way they phrase it makes initial “common sense” but completely falls apart if you actually analyze the issue in any depth. And, oh boy, are Republicans good at not analyzing an issue in depth. “Nah, just go with the gut! Trust me! It’s easier! Plus, it greatly aids my hidden agenda.”
The final resort regarding voter ID is, inevitably:
“Well, These Laws Keep Illegal Mexicans From Voting.” [As if illegal immigrants would ever risk getting anywhere near to a polling station.]
It’s sickening this is happening in my lifetime.
Is it so hard to get a photo ID in the US?
I understand the point of strucking such a law given the context, but living in Italy i am also baffled that it’s so hard or difficult to get one and that voting is allowed without.
I mean, here everybody has one, and it’s not that we are Sweden-like efficient or something.
The easiest way to get a photo ID in the US is a driver’s license from the DMV. One of the dirty tricks used here was to make access to the DMV effectively impossible for hundreds of thousands of people, with the purpose of disenfranchisment.
That’s odd.
Here you go to the town hall where you live, they have your data (since forever) and issue you a specific ID Card that you renew every 5 or 10 years, i don’t remember.
The process is painless (except taking the phots, but we digress) and expensive at all.
It’s a question of logistics, unfortunately. Due to the way that US populations are arranged, especially in urban population centers, it’s more efficient for there to be dedicated specific locations for such things as getting/renewing a driver’s license than there is to try and use town halls to shoehorn in all of the various services into a single structure. But, as a result of that, the specialized locations can then be meddled with (altering the times that they’re open or shifting their locations, for example) in order to deny access to groups of people.
How do they make access to the DMV effectively impossible?
[quote=“Zaphod, post:112, topic:82373, full:true”]
That’s odd.Here you go to the town hall where you live, they have your data (since forever) and issue you a specific ID Card that you renew every 5 or 10 years, i don’t remember.The process is painless (except taking the phots, but we digress) and expensive at all.
[/quote]I don’t know what the political geography is like in Italy, but imagine if the ruling party shut down all the town halls in areas where their political opponents mostly lived. The north, the south, a particular coast, rural or uban areas… whatever. Imagine they did this immediately after passing new laws requiring IDs be obtained from those town halls before voting.
[quote=“Max_Blancke, post:114, topic:82373, full:true”]
How do they make access to the DMV effectively impossible?
[/quote]Here’s one example:
Last year, Alabama began enforcing a controversial voter ID law that disenfranchised hundreds of otherwise eligible voters who lacked the proper documents. This month, the state plans to close 31 driver’s license offices — most of them in rural, impoverished, majority-black counties — making it even harder for residents to get the most common form of ID used to vote.
Yes, one right after the other.
In areas where most people have cars the DMV may be inaccessible to public transportation. This isn’t necessarily intentional discrimination, just planners operating under an assumption that anyone who wants to go to the DMV must have a car to get there.
O yes.
As i said it is dependent on the context where the law is made.
It is pretty clear that this is a law that had to be stopped because it was unfair. This has nothing to do with my being baffled by the lack of ID by large swath of the population in some states.
It is the fact itself that made me wonder.
Maybe it has to do with a pseudo-anarchic distrust of the state that is ingrained in the mentality of (some part) of the US population?
you lost me there. what is your measurement? spendings for the military? health care costs per capita?
My spouse is a voting official. I’m no expert, but this is what I have observed in Kentucky -
[quote=“Michael.Lederman, post:100, topic:82373”]
Okay I’ll prove that Photo ID does more good then harm.[/quote]
…and then you go on to provide absolutely no solid evidence of the levels of harm versus the levels of good. That’s an interesting definition of “prove” you have there.
And yet, evidence that these laws are stopping actual incidents of voter fraud seems to be oddly absent. As is any investigation of whether there are other, less restrictive measures that would do just as well! Amazing, that.
Aside from the incapacity of enough people to make a difference in an election overlapping the number of people required to commit such a conspiracy effectively and keep it secret, multiplied by the jail time each conspirator would face if caught.
It’s an idea, but it’s not a good one. It’s inefficient.
What would prevent a significant number of people from getting multiple IDs and voting multiple times under a Photo ID only plan? Same things.
Logic it out, it just ain’t a real problem.
Pay someone reputable some money. Education isn’t free.
Thinking for yourself, is. Think about it. Logic it out.
Disenfranchisement wasn’t invented here but I believe America professionalized the practice.
The question is still the same regardless of whether one processes an ID or not. - is it racist to ask someone - anyone to provide a state issued ID in order to cash a check, fly on an airplane or use a credit card? Can you ponder that question and provide an answer?
( as a side note: people who don’t have bank accounts occasionally need to cash checks. )
prove that this happens, or happened before photo IDs got involved. Not voting fraud, but this specific tactic - of voting multiple times in an election - worked or had any effect whatsoever. Wouldn’t SOMEONE have been caught doing it by now? And wouldn’t that person need accomplices?
We managed just fine for a couple hundred of our few hundred years as a nation without photography at all. We don’t need to preemptively remove someones right to vote in order to soothe your paranoias that your vote might be cuckolded by a colored man.
