Online anti-harassment task force launched

Insular groups can make up their own external enemies, they don’t need real ones to radicalize people. Like you say, this is the tactic of cults, but most cults don’t have real enemies because no one has heard of them.

But as I’ve said before, lectures on how to convince people to do things from someone who is clearly not convincing the person they are lecturing with of anything are a little hollow. If you know how people behave and what motivates them and how to get things done, then demonstrate it by showing that you have a trick up your sleeve other than aloofness and actually convince someone.

If you want to talk reality, here is reality: We aren’t going to save everyone. How much empathy and compassion are we going to put into getting a couple of people on twitter to stop tweeting #gamergate (while getting threats from the rest the entire time) when if there’s any hope for them they’ll probably grow up and stop doing it in a year or two anyway? The strategy you are suggesting - actually reaching out to people, being moderate, offering people an ear is work. I know because I’m the person who actually does it on these boards.

But somehow @marilove has never yelled at me for apologizing for or supporting #gamergate. That’s because actually reaching out to people (while refusing to accept distorted reality and hate from them) is neither of those things. Telling people who aren’t doing that that they are taking the wrong approach from a high perch is.

Sometimes when you have cancer you treat it and try to save as much of the tissue as possible, sometimes you cut it the hell out. Is #gamergate an organ worth saving? I hardly blame anyone who doesn’t think so.

It is sad. I think that’s how a lot of people feel. And a lot of people who aren’t gamers are looking on in amazement, think, “Why would people do this over videogames?”

Imagine there was a news story about how some stamp collectors were bullying women out of stamp collecting. That would sure make everyone stay the hell away from stamp collecting.

Here’s the problem, what is anyone saying to @marilove other than: “You are doing it wrong,” “You are emotional,” “Not all gamergaters.”

The analogy to the KKK is completely apt. There are people who are in the KKK just for the social connection who don’t have a deep hatred for any of the groups the KKK was formed to attack, and yes, some of those people, given other opportunities, would leave the KKK and stop racist behaviours. If someone can put together an outreach program to reach those people then good for them (there are such movements in Germany for neo-Nazis). But does everyone else have to band together and say that, for the good of the few KKK members who aren’t as bad as the other KKK members we’ve got to lay off the KKK?

Gamergate is on the Southern Poverty Law Center’s radar as a hate group. At what point do the members themselves have a responsibility to look at outside sources and go, “Whoa!”?

Doesn’t this smell a little bit like white men sitting around talking about how everyone should be more sympathetic to misguided white men?

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I also can’t believe noone brought up “#NotYourShield

I’m going to admit it, I honestly had no idea what #NotYourShield was about. If a woman or a person of colour posted something with #NotYourShield… did that mean that people who were not part of gamergate were trying to use that person as a shield? It just doesn’t quite make sense to me. I think there’s a gamergate-specific view of the world baked into that one.

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Once again, it’s a response to social justice warrors

The way I’ve put it elsewhere is that it doesn’t take much digging to find that #Gamergate is driven by reactionaries, and that they try to mask how extreme they are, to draw in lazy misogynists. Lazy people are the least likely to do that digging, however. (I have in mind an analogy with skinhead punks in the UK in the 1970s.) I think it’s worth distinguishing between a core of hardened reactionaries, and a larger number of garden variety misogynists. With the latter, I think it’s in order to yell at them to wake the hell up, because at least some of them may wake the hell up.

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Hence some people like myself describes it as a war between reactionary slactivists.

Yeah, but why wasn’t it #OtherNonsensePhrase. I honestly just don’t get what it’s supposed to mean.

Well, from what I gathered, they wanted to be broad as possible; especially when they believed a SJW infiltrated the industry.

“As broad as possible” would be #Anything

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I think it was originally somewhat analogous to “keyboard commando”, as a derisive characterization of angry posts on Twitter and Tumblr.

Let me rephrase it.

GamerGate, as the supporters claimed it to be, are about two things:

  • Ethic in Game Journalism.
  • Getting the Social Justice Warriors out of the Gaming Industry.

Both of which were non-issues since:

  • Journalistic Integrity is dead.
  • SJWs are slacktivists at best.

Which is the problem with #GamerGate as a whole, they thought they have proof that there’s corruption within the industry; but they failed to realize that their little campaign scared off many of the minorities into silence in the process.

Wrong order. The entire point was to attack minorities; criticizing actual corruption was a red herring. Sorry, but if you ever thought #Gamergate was an honest movement, you were fooled. I’m trying to give you the benefit of a doubt here, because the degree of central coordination of #Gamergate has been covered extensively.

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When I encounter a @marilove post that rubs me the wrong way, I follow this flowchart

  1. Is she wrong?
  2. ???
  3. No.
  4. Profittt!!!

If we voted for a spirit avatar for Mari on the BBS, I’d vote Walter.

I see her contributions as far more valuable for being accurate, not whether they are blasé enough.

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I’d like to strongly second these things.

So here we have this movement that from the first was built around trying to silence feminists and critics. That even in Doc’s gently rephrased goals wants to get rid of the voices of “SJWs” and anyone who criticizes them for misogyny, and from all evidence has concerned itself with nothing beyond harassing and threatening such people. That as pointed out is being recognized as a hate group.

So who do the posters here find to criticize? Why obviously, it should be the woman who somehow doesn’t want to reach out to this group. If she really cared, she should be trying to teach them her view. The dudes manage to discuss harassment of women with calm indifference, she should have to do the same, and instead she’s all angry and emotional for some reason.

Derailing Using Education
Derailing Using Anger
Derailing Using Emotion

Usually you also see derailing using retaliation - where people interrupt the conversation to yawn and complain that there’s only so much people can worry about, and can anybody really say this hate group is productive for us to focus on?

Yet I never see that yawn when I argue about things like the definition of planets or infinite sets. Probably the most angry and unpersuasive debates here are on gun control, but there the same people are often happy to engage; shaddack’s even brought up the critical issue of folding knife rights. No, the yawn of unimportance seems to be reserved for issues affecting minorities.

And hey, we haven’t been focusing much on that here. We’ve been talking about the gamergaters themselves, how everyone should be more understanding and stop judging them based on what the evidence shows the movement to be. So I guess now it’s worth our concern, not like when we were talking about the women they were driving off-line and from their homes.

I guess it’s written to sound reasonable in small doses, but taken as a whole it’s all plainly textbook tactics to dismiss minority concerns. It’s directly opposed to the pretended goal of building bridges, it’s nasty, and it’s really disappointing to see here. I really wish people could figure things out and stop doing it.

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You know, the more I think about your little “you’re privileged comment”, the more I realize I should have addressed that earlier.

I know what it’s like to be a lonely, unliked, bullied nerd. I grew up in the middle of the desert. My kindergarten thru 8th grade school had 200 students max; my 8th grade class alone only had 13.

I was HEAVILY bullied. I even had a really terrible nickname for over nine years that I won’t share here. My other nicknames were “The Bookworm” – and also “The Twin” (I have a twin sister). I was almost never called by my first name, even though I hated all the other nicknames (except “the bookworm”, that one was okay). I had almost no friends for most of my time at that school.

My dad, a big ol’ nerd himself, got us online in the BBS days. I spent my entire time on the computer – during a time when that was REALLY FUCKING WEIRD.

High school wasn’t much better. I still didn’t fit in, even though the school was a tiny bit bigger and there was some new people. I had some friends but I wasn’t really that close to anyone. I was still often called “the twin” or just completely ignored. I was basically invisible.

As soon as I could, I got a part-time job that also gave me school credit, and took off after lunch to work.

I continued to spend a LOT of time online (I discovered IRC, and it was over).

I KNOW what it’s like to be a lonely, unloved, unliked nerd who does not fit in.

And on top of all that? I was an out atheist and queer.

Am I privileged? OF course I am. I’m white and I grew up lower middle class – not rich or even well off, but never wanting for much. My family is nuts in a lot of ways, but also very close. I’m very lucky.

But I have never “fit in”. I’ve always been the odd ball of my family. I’m the atheist queer nerdy girl who ran away to Phoenix as soon as she fucking could.

And somehow, after all that shit, I have never felt the need to join a FUCKING HATE GROUP to “fit in”.

Anyone who must joinn a HATE GROUP to fit in is not a good person.

Gamergate is not about anything other than harassing women. Period.

I don’t really care if you think of me (although I don’t think you really know me as well as you think you do).

But I do think you’re a condescending ass who is defending a LITERAL hate group.

Also: Stop tone trolling me, and stop commenting on my (admittedly lazy) use of all caps. Respond to my arguments, not my tone or style of writing. Tone trolling is not cute. It’s a major derailment. Note how I’ve mostly ignored your boring, trite tone trolling? Yeah. It’s lazier than my all caps use!

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they thought they have proof that there’s corruption within the industry

OMG, it was NEVER about “ethics in gaming journalism” which is why why everyone was mocking that phrase so much.

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Gamergate is on the Southern Poverty Law Center’s radar as a hate group. At what point do the members themselves have a responsibility to look at outside sources and go, “Whoa!”?

Doesn’t this smell a little bit like white men sitting around talking about how everyone should be more sympathetic to misguided white men?

YUP. That’s exactly what it is.=

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I wish Crash Override all the success in the world. It’s been glaringly clear that law enforcement is woefully unprepared for this level of internet harassment and the internet community in general needs more resources to defend against it.

I’m really worried about the technology arms race between the harassers and people defending against them. It’s been escalating over the last few years and shows no signs of slowing. Eventually some people are going to jail for a long time but they’re ruining a lot of lives in the meantime.

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I’m going to admit.

I’m lazy.

It is the same reason why people didn’t do their own sleuthing around Eroji, TFYC, and just about everyone else involved; it’s because they’re lazy.

That’s why I describe them as Slacktivist at best, they take any claim that seem convenient to their self doubt. GamerGate is nothing more than a scam to slander women in industry to make a profit.

But I see your frustration and I apologized for the argument. In short, like the saying goes: “trust noone”.

True that, but on the wild and open Twitter there are no really insular groups. These tend to be off the radars.

There are people inside. Living people with their ideas and opinions and faults and behavioral modes. Not just cancer cells.

In the Ireland/UK troubles, the peace was not achieved by aggressive victory of one side. It was after they quite mellowed out (and the non-mellowing out splinted off as PIRA, which later mellowed out too). In the US-USSR tension, it is being said that Reagan’s hardline approach was what strengthened the USSR’s faltering hardliners’ position, slowing down the developments by couple years (thank you, Ronnie).

The other options will result in the misguided ones causing way more damage on their way to mellowing out.

Getting overly emotional is not sexist. Check the nearest pub brawl for a proof. No gender has a monopoly here.

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