Pence is opposed to using 25th Amendment to remove Trump: Reports

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The Silver Weasel lives up to his name once again.


Is anyone really surprised by this?

What we need is a way to enforce the Constitution when the people who it needs to be enforced against are not in control of the enforcement


Impeachment it is, then.


A question from a non-American. Supposing the 25th was invoked and Pence took on the Office of President, would that count as one of his terms of office and then limit him to contesting for one further 4-year term? If so, it may in part explain his reticence to invoke the 25th amendment.


I actually thought he would go for it. The Executive staff are all lame ducks anyways and it would avoid another Senate sh*tshow that I think even Mitch would rather avoid at this point.


That’s a good question. I don’t have the answer, other than to say the 25th has never been used before, so it’s really murky territory.


Trump and Mitch have made me far more aware of the workings of the government. The more I see the more it looks like a giant game of D&D. So I think you are looking for a federal DM. :wink:


If someone is a president for more then 2 years (1/2 term), it counts as a term. if they serve less than that, then it doesn’t.


From TFA (Amendment, the 22nd in this case):

Section 1. No person shall be elected to the office of the President more than twice, and no person who has held the office of President, or acted as President, for more than two years of a term to which some other person was elected President shall be elected to the office of President more than once. But this Article shall not apply to any person holding the office of President when this Article was proposed by Congress, and shall not prevent any person who may be holding the office of President, or acting as President, during the term within which this Article becomes operative from holding the office of President or acting as President during the remainder of such term.

Invoking the 25th only immediately makes Pence the acting president in the short-term, also. But even if it were longer-term the concern became inoperative January 21, 2018.


Perfect answer, and with citation. You have earned my gratitude. Many thanks.


Actually, it’s based upon the number of days. LBJ served the rest of JFKs term but it was less than half of a full term. He was reelected for one term and still could have run for one more term he chose to. (He saw the writing on the wall and I think he wasn’t feeling well.)

Oops. I see I was after @dreamofthedarkstar Sorry! :wink: (who had the citation)


Section 4 has never been used. 1-3 have been (once, twice, and thrice respectively).


i’m actually surprised. i thought his entire motive was to be VP so he could then run in 2024. he wants power. i’m surprised he didn’t take it at the first opportunity, even if it would only be for a week or so. can we ask his fly if it would approve of using the 25th?


He’d be alienating the very supporters he was trying to cultivate by taking this job in the first place, though.


If Pence does the right thing and invokes 25A Section 4, then he’d only be Acting President.

If Pence refuses, and Trump is then impeached and removed, then Pence becomes President.

The incentives here seem to be kind of screwed up.


Well, he’d be acting President for up to 25ish days, at which point both houses of Congress would vote to see if the position should become permanent. (3/4ths majority required in both.) If that passes muster he becomes President in full.


I just watched the speech that the President just posted to Twitter - I’m sure he didn’t write it, because there wasn’t any mention of a stolen landslide election, and he actually admitted Biden will be President and committed to a peaceful transition.

I wonder if some of his advisors actually got through to him that if he didn’t, the 25th would become a lot more likely.


Hey. Bub. If not now, when?

Not this late in 45’s term. His position ends one way or another in 13 days.