Just… ugh… I…
I give up.
Just don’t spill your madness over the border.
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So you would agree that referring to King’s eventual philosophy of nonviolence as “unarmed” is not at all “noble savage grade bullshit” – its actually an accurate reflection of his philosophy and his movement at least in the later years?
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That he didn’t personally take up arms doesn’t mean that his his successes weren’t predicated on the presence of those who did, both in the local/immediate sense of the armed defenders accompanying nonviolent protesters so the protests didn’t turn into lynchings, and on the national “those in power can choose to negotiate with the socially relatable, nonviolent minister who is asking for relatively small changes, or with Huey P. Newton, who is a revolutionary socialist, black nationalist, and will fucking shoot you” sense.
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In 2015, there were 511 white people killed by police; the NRA didn’t say a word about the near-daily shooting of white men by police (not all the 511 were shot, some were women).
The National Rifle Association gives Law Enforcement Officers free or discounted memberships, and while there is no love lost between the NRA and the National Association of Chiefs of Police, I do not recall the NRA ever making a negative statement about rank and file local/state LEO.
Surprised no one mentioned these guys and their effect on Governor Reagan.
Funny to think they’re still relevant in 2016.
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[quote]Some Guy:
“Guns don’t kill people, people kill people.”[/quote]
[quote]Wayne LaPierre, NRA Executive Vice President:
“The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun.”[/quote]
Okay, so putting it all together:
The guy who wants to kill other people can only be stopped by another guy capable of killing people such as the first guy who wants to kill other people.
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Well, they made a great start. The tragedy is that their successors mostly tried to be less effective, because revolution against an oppressive slave empire is supposed to be safe and easy… Not to say that no good has been done since the mid 1970s, far from it, but people petitioning for fair treatment rather than asserting their political power are pretty much putting their oppressors in the position of power.
It does not need to require violence. But I think it does require the people to stand up and say definitively that “Our consent to be governed is conditional, and if you betray our trust there are real consequences.” Without consequences, there is no incentive for the “powers that be” to take anyone seriously. We are fighting for accountability, not wasteful bloodshed.
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Rather than requiring cops to wear body cameras, how about we push for serious, in-depth sensitivity training that attempts* to get white cops to stop being so goddamned afraid of black men. More black cops might help that effort too.
(I say “attempts” because I can’t say I have much faith in the idea, but I’m at a loss as to what else will make the killing stop. I’m not going to keep pushing for cops getting prosecuted when they just keep getting off with desk duty and paid leave.)
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Why not both? I think that the cameras are helping to make these issues known, and at least start to get people interested in police accountability.
This I think does have a real chance of working. It doesn’t even need to teach sensitivity to specific minority groups, but sensitivity to communities as a concept. Police conditioning tends to break all relationships down into being composed of criminals or victims - nobody else really matters. The cynical view of government in a capitalist system is that creates jobs and power by perpetuating the very problems it is meant to solve. So more incarcerations and even deaths can appear as evidence that police are earning their pay and getting results. It’s a rather fundamental, systemic problem.
One of my favorite glib solutions to failing infrastructure and ballooning police budgets I thought of is to merge police and public works. Instead of literally wandering around and looking for trouble, police work on the practical upkeep of the community. Bonuses can be scaled so that there is always more work to be done, but they profit by making the effort. And since they are already all over the municipality, it is easy for some of them to respond to crimes and/or emergencies. This makes them always busy, and inspires some pride in making the area not look like a flipping war zone. Being out fixing things 90% of the time will expose them and help them to be more sensitive naturally to the community in all of its ethnicities.
Or, because I like sexual activism, we could go the Raspberry Reich way and create more sensitivity through sexual healing. Gudrun built my hotrod! Am I joking? Not really, but I think it’s still funny.
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I honestly want to know the answer to this and I’m not trying to start a ruckus; when does the NRA go up against the cops? They go up against the Democrats, and the government, and Hillary Clinton…but has the NRA ever took the side opposing a police shooting?
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It is super tricky for the NRA, because most shootings are cleared by the dept. investigations as being justified so if you come against the findings then you get thrown in with police in general, and the “blue family” is possibly even more die hard than the NRA gun owners group.
There is a lot of support brewing from gun owners for Philando’s case. For All those that want to jump down the NRAs throat as represe ntative of gun owners, the facts and the incident are still fresh. Hopefully we will continue to develop a full picture. Every gun owner and CCW holder dreads this type of adverse reaction from a LEO upon them learning you are armed or have weapons in the vehicle. There are lots of stories online ranging from they were cool and asked me about stuff, to full blown felony stop treatment.
RIP Philando. RIP Alton.
The badge killings in TX are going to make it very difficult for there to be any dialogue with LEO now that a few people have decided it is time to vote from the rooftops.
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It’s very difficult to have any dialog if the cops aren’t willing to participate in the first place. I don’t advocate shooting them, but I fail to see how it makes much difference in the general discourse. The cops shoot someone, the prosecutors refuse to charge, the communities want closure, the cops ignore them, rinse repeat.
It’s not like it was making much progress before snipers took out a few cops. No matter how unfortunate and wrong it was. It’s actually rather expected. We’ve seen this playing out in the middle east for a very long time, “You kill mine, I’ll kill yours, fuck talking, fuck peace. We’ll have peace when you’re all dead.”
If you wrong someone, it’s partially your responsibility to try and make things right. The police departments are far more concerned with shielding their officers from the consequences of their actions than they are with making things right with the community they supposedly are there to protect. So improving relations can’t continue as long as the cops aren’t willing to meet their victims half-way or take responsibility.
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Thanks for your contribution. This is why I read BBS, to learn and see things a new. Never considered civil rights movements connection with guns, but makes complete sense in the context of the US.
So Mr Castile was plainly a good guy, and he had a gun. Does that mean he was The Good Guy With A Gun? Would another GGWAG have been able to save him? It’s super complicated.
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The same nonsense is spoken about the struggle for Indian independence, which is commonly taken as an inspiration for the civil rights movement. It suits both the British and Indian establishments to commemorate Gandhi’s non-violent resistance (representing the Indians as paragons of nobility and spirituality, and the British as too civilised to crush them with the necessary ruthlessness), while airbrushing things like the Quit India movement (600+ bombings and the deployment of 50 battalions to restore order) and the Indian National Army from the popular memory.
And like MLK, Gandhi’s stance on violence wasn’t as clear-cut as generally believed:
I want both the Hindus and Mussalmans [Muslims] to cultivate the cool courage to die without killing. But if one has not that courage, I want him to cultivate the art of killing and being killed rather than, in a cowardly manner, flee from danger.
I have been repeating over and over again that he who cannot protect himself or his nearest and dearest or their honour by non-violently facing death may and ought to do so by violently dealing with the oppressor.
Self-defence…is the only honourable course where there is unreadiness for self-immolation. Though violence is not lawful, when it is offered in self-defence or for the defence of the defenceless, it is an act of bravery far better than cowardly submission. The latter befits neither man nor woman. Under violence, there are many stages and varieties of bravery. Every man must judge this for himself. No other person can or has the right.
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I’m officially on the NWA side. F the police. I know it’s not fair and there are good cops. It’s also not fair that cops keep killing people of color with impunity. I’m not going to trust the cops again until the earn my trust back. I think I’ll stay on this side until I start seeing videos of cops rolling up on black guys with guns and chit chatting with them and saying things like, “I know you have a right to carry that firearm. I’m not going to take away that right from you.” You know, they way the do when they roll up on white guys with guns.
I don’t own a gun and never would and I’m lily white. With a bit of luck I shouldn’t star in one of the videos.
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Think of it as a litmus test for bigoted assholes
I wonder if there is any way to avoid hiring officers who think being born into dark skin is a capital offense.
Perhaps meaningful consequences for summary execution would help?
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I don’t think it will be possible to weed out all problem cases at hiring - phrenology et al does not work. But I’m sure better training would work; the multi-year trainings for new policemen in most European* countries are not only filled with bumming around.
* maybe even most developed countries, don’t know how it’s handled in e.g. Japan, Australia or NZ
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