I guess I’m a fan of all or nothing - either everyone gets to have their marker/statue/sculpture or no one does.
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“Judeo-Christian” is a category that historians and theologians use academically. It indicates a line of theological descent, a historical ancestry of memes.
Satanism is a heretical form of Christianity; it uses Christian iconography and is directly descended from Medieval Christianity. Judaism begat Christianity begat Satanism, and all three fall into the academic category named after the first two.
Mormons are Judeo-Christians too, although many Christians will insist that both Mormons and Satanists are in some other category (possibly called “damned heathens”).
Lest anyone think I am attempting to insult any faith here, I’ll point out that the Unitarian Universalist church I attend is also a child of Christianity; although no longer theologically Judeo-Christian it’s still historically Judeo-Christian. For maximum confusion.
[quote=“Brainspore, post:62, topic:30029”]
The only reason Satanists are forbidden from engaging in insurance fraud is that the Dark Lord runs the insurance industry. How do you think the state of American health care got to where it is today?[/quote]
You, sir, win ten Internets and the thread.
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I self-identify as a Christian. I’m a member of a church. And I fully support the work being done by this group. It’s beautiful art but my hope is that lawmakers see the error of their ways and the general christian population will feel the impact of all state sponsored religion and turn away from misguided christian statues in public places.
It’s either this next to your 10 commandments statues and crosses or no religious statues at all.
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Louis C.K. said there’s plenty of things after death, it’s just that none of them involve you.
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It’s fun to ask people to recite the ten Commandments, because there’s really nine. One version double counts idolatry and the other double counts idolatry.
Why go to all the trouble of putting up a bronze statue. If they want a satanish icon, all they have to do is look at the politicians inside!
Oh hey, thanks!
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Lloyds would insure it, but “The Temple is building a mold of the sculpture so they can pop these things out” and bronze isn’t terribly expensive. Probably not worth large premiums.
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What is the Pastafarian view on matters of truth and moarlity?
There is no dogma. Each Pastafarian has to figure that out for himself or herself. As far as truth, I’d guess that most Pastafarians would think that the scientific method is the best method to find the truth and that nothing outside of the FSM and pirates are supernatural. As far as morality, I would guess that most Pastafarians would probably be primarily influenced by the major branches of philosophical ethics: Kantian, Utilitarianism, and virtue ethics (though there are probably also some hedonists as well).
Yea, it would have been easier for you to say that truth and morality are what we say they are. This is the philosophy that lead to the murder of 150M+ people in the 20th century.
I’m utterly surprised you would make such a statement. You are clearly trying to say Christian morality is superior to all others while ignoring the fact that Christians were responsible for probably half of those murders. I know, you’ll say they weren’t ‘true’ Christians, but you are no true Scotsman. If you want to say Christian morality is superior to other types of ethics, you will actually have to make an argument to that effect. I don’t really care, nor do I want to hear it. My response to you was about how everybody is aware your religion exists, so you don’t have to shove it down our throats and that Christians are not the only people who have learned to deal with questions of morality and truth. If you think the rest of us have inferior systems, then that is your judgement. But don’t pretend that it is some universal truth. It isn’t. It is just your opinion.
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Actually I pared that number down from 600M to only include the death toll due to communist regimes killing their own civilians.
As to the issue of “Christian” killers I wish to make two points:
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Exactly, No True Scotsman, nowhere in Christian teachings are we to murder. I submit that these killings still would have occurred in the absence of Christianity. Furthermore, the No True Scotsman fallacy only applies to a posteriori arguments.
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A common technique in refutations like are yours is the tacit assumption that Christian societies somehow have a monopoly on depravity. Deprivity is a universal human condition that reaches fruition in the absence of a universal moral code.
Judging from your misunderstandings I would say that, no, everybody is NOT aware of my religion.
No, its not a matter of opinion, that is the whole point.
What ethical system are you thinking of that supports that? When Christians kill, you make the exception that they weren’t doing what they were taught. But when atheists/Buddhists/Muslims kill, you do what exactly?[quote=“BobbaBoosh, post:77, topic:30029”]
2) A common technique in refutations like are yours is the tacit assumption that Christian societies somehow have a monopoly on depravity.
[/quote]
I never made nor implied this.
You are holier than me. I get it. I think we’re done here.
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“My response to you was about how everybody is aware your religion exists, so you don’t have to shove it down our throats”
Ah, but here’s the thing… He’s not really “forcing it down our throats”. He just pointed out that he’s a religious person, which you responded to, like a true bigot, by taunting him and his religion.
(Ironically, intolerance towards other religions and philosophies is a frequent, and often valid, complaint against Christians. Especially if they happen to vote republican. I wouldn’t be entirely surprised if you’ve accused religious people of intolerance in the past, which would mean that you’re not just a bigot, but also a hypocrite.)
" and that Christians are not the only people who have learned to deal with questions of morality and truth. If you think the rest of us have inferior systems, then that is your judgement. But don’t pretend that it is some universal truth. It isn’t. It is just your opinion."
Ehm, actually it’s not just “his opinion” that there is a universal truth, and that the Judeo-Christian god is a big part of that truth.
It’s an opinion shared by over 2 billion people. Over 3.5 billion people in fact, if you include Moslems and Jews, who also worship the same god.
(Now as an atheist/agnostic its not a faith or god that I share. But I do respect it, not just because you have to give respect to get respect, but just because it’s the decent, right thing to do.)
So don’t try to equate his faith with your faux-faith, or claim that his religion is just as valid as any other religion, including “pastafarianism”, it’s not.
One is a real religion shared by billions, the other is a cute invention that’s often used to make a crude point.
Usually by teenagers or college students, who’ve read a little Dawkins, and try to show mom and dad what great freethinkers and rebels they are. Just like everyone else in the favorite “independent” coffee shop.
I didn’t taunt or mock anything about his religion. Pastafarianism isn’t mockery of Christianity, it is a satirical take on atheism. The fact that atheism exists (in any form) does not insult the existence of religion. FSM didn’t come about because atheists hated Christians. It came about because Christians decided to twist educational systems to exclude, limit, or undermine subjects like evolution. FSM was an argument by absurdity response to the Christian argument that all sides should be taught. If non-scientific intelligent design deserves to be taught (teach the controversy), then surely every absurd theory should be taught. As such, the FSM is often brought up in places where Christians wish to exclude other religions, such as with this monument.[quote=“Capedcrusader, post:79, topic:30029”]
Ironically, intolerance towards other religions and philosophies is a frequent, and often valid, complaint against Christians.
[/quote]
What are you talking about? How are Christians being persecuted by being able to have their 10 Commandments monument -and- having a Satanic monument? Are they excluded by not being able to be the one exclusive religion in Oklahoma? Is that your definition of intolerance?[quote=“Capedcrusader, post:79, topic:30029”]
One is a real religion shared by billions, the other is a cute invention that’s often used to make a crude point.
Usually by teenagers or college students, who’ve read a little Dawkins, and try to show mom and dad what great freethinkers and rebels they are. Just like everyone else in the favorite “independent” coffee shop.
[/quote]
The point isn’t crude. It is about free exercise of religion (or none). And atheism isn’t rebellion. Save your insults for another conversation.
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At one time the Romans said much the same thing.
We have lots of racists living on our planet. Are their beliefs also “valid” because there are a lot of them?
What other religions do you find to be less valid than christianity? SubGenius? Buddhism? Sikhism? Hinduism? Wicca? Eckankar? There are various religious sects with extremely small numbers of followers, are they also “faux-faiths”?
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Gnomes. Fishing ones. For yer pre-religious chthonianistry.
Pretty classy-looking actually.
