I’ll play along.
Describe the process by which your idea will work. District Attorney giving evidence to a Grand Jury? How well has that worked?
That’s fine. I pushed hard because I want you to understand how radically uncivilized the current cop absolutism is. It simply doesn’t work in the context of a modern democracy.
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All I can say to that is… Mmmmmmm, rye… 
I’m afraid that’s how deep the mistrust runs, It’s not just the bad guys anymore. And I realise that there are many years of public mistrust to undo, but it seems the job hasn’t even started yet. In fact it generally feels like quite the opposite.
And to me, it doesn’t sound like you speak on behalf of the police. The descriptions of your handling of events is quite at odds with the things we hear.
You must be one of those few good apples. Indeed, a few more of you at the top
would improve the whole barrel.
Thank you for that. An excellent (albeit depressing) read.
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F*k yes!
It’s also worth noting that in reverse situations, the average person has no recourse. If you’re arrested for a crime, even if you did not do the crime, you may miss work or even lose your job, you may spend a night (or longer) in jail, you may suffer physical injuries due to the arrest, your reputation may be damaged by it being in the news.
Some of that MIGHT eventually be recouped if you sue under wrongful arrest, but a) I wouldn’t bet on it, and b) that usually assumes the arrest actually is specifically, willfully, wrongful- not just cops genuinely believing you committed the crime and arresting you based on the evidence (which happens to look too suspicious but there’s a perfectly reasonable explanation), but that they set out to frame you or arrested you just to screw with you. Other than that, I’m not aware of any way to make up your losses from an incorrect arrest.
So yeah, some kind of automatic financial penalty does seem like a decent enough plan. If cops have a problem with that, they can buy insurance to cover them during these times, or arrange for their union to pay it.
I’d perhaps be a little more lenient, make it apply (or the pay non-recoverable) when there’s a death that’s specifically not an immediate ‘defense-of-my-life-or-the-life-of-others’ measure (which would unfortunately let off Darren Wilson, since they’re going to believe the cop’s word, and almost certainly be trotted out at every opportunity, but would not forgive the cops in the Blake case where they choke-holded to death him merely to subdue him)
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First, I don’t get the “command” vibe from the statements. Mayor de Blasio didn’t threaten, but tried to thread a difficult needle. Right now many in the NYPD see him as the Other, as Them instead of Us, so his speech seemed written to defuse a bad situation and keep more people from getting hurt in clashes. Not an easy job.
I do not envy the mayor, especially as the police seemed to distrust him even before he won the election. There tends to be a sort of mentality there that makes Cop Land look more and more relevant to the modern day.
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It’s just like the gun control debate. Now isn’t the time to talk about this. The time to discuss is “another day”. Unfortunately this stuff happens every day now, so it will conveniently never be “another day”.
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I am glad @John_A showed up to give a sense of cops being real people, not just faceless drones in riot gear ready to stamp on a face with a boot forever.
As one can imagine some of the other forums I am on have a lot of cops on them. As well as a lot of anti-government, libertarian types. So I see a lot of posts about cops shooting dogs for no reason and shooting people for no reasons and questionable reasons. Most of the cops on those forums are the first to condemn a bad shoot. Though they will sometimes defend a questionable shoot in ways you or I are not thinking of.
So while I’ve been called names for giving cops the benefit of the doubt and my stance that most cops are decent people, it’s nice to see a real person vs defending against a stereotype. And while I haven’t had a chance to read all the posts, it appears to echo what I have heard from others, that many do see a problem with some cops and there needs action to remove those cops from the force to make everything better for everyone.
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To his credit, even Commissioner Bill Bratton reminded people of this constant, historic adversarial relationship between the police unions and the mayors, and condemned the back-turning police. Hell, even Rudy 9-11 Giuliani called the PBA chief’s rhetoric incendiary. The “Blood on your hands” line is selling papers, though, which sucks. This assclown PBA PR man is getting a lot of mileage, ironically in a very anti-union country, and amongst strongly anti-union people. I’m glad De Blasio is also taking it out of reporters for fanning the flames.
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Not because they THINK it.
Because they DO it.
police tolerate thuggishness from an officer next to them that they would bludgeon and choke you out for.
Incidentally, neither of the officers killed was white.
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“Or is it more of the cops and politicians trying to use these tragic murders to deflect attention from, and stop discussion about, the other tragic murders?”
Front and rear cameras on each officer, with audio
one camera per pistol and long gun
one camera per dog.
six cameras per car.
I think it will be remarkably humbling, and that’s what has to happen.
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Did the cops stop policing out of respect for people murdered by police?
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Probably not. On the other hand, it is the only approach placed in to action thus far.
But if you act as the police; if you stand your ground (and kill the witness), you can get off scott free.
Historically speaking, the police were under greater judicial oversight.
It’s a checks and balances syste, I have no idea why people think the executive is EVER going to check the executives power.
and there is no entity in the current system capable of achieving that.
This fight has to be in the courts and the legislature. That’s who tells the executive branch what to do, and also who pays their salaries. That is where the ‘change’ must, by definition, come from.That is where the work, therefore, must be done.
Keep trying to change the executive by asking nicely, you will, in fact, get nowhere but frustrated to the point of trying to take the wind out of the sails of the other reformers, and thus effectively help the oppressors with your contagious cynicism.
If you don’t know what to do. Sit down. Listen. Think on it.
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Yes, I understand which branches are legally empowered with fixing this. I also know they’re not likely to actually do it until there are riots forcing their hand, and I am simply pointing out that any method I find acceptable is unlikely to produce meaningful change in the current overall political climate where the legislature is owned in fee simple by campaign donors and the judiciary can’t act unless executive branch employees (prosecutors and LEOs) make arrests, bring charges, secure indictments, etc. I am sitting and listening and thinking, and I do apologize if my cynicism is contagious. By all means, making more protest noise is essential and targeting actions well is also essential. I consider myself a short-run pessimist and long-run optimist.
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