We most likely wouldn’t be having conversations like this if the good or smart people were the main pool of potential employees applying for and obtaining jobs as police officers.
Also, the people in your community who pay the taxes that provide your paycheck are not “civilians,” they are citizens. Military terminology has no useful or beneficial place in a municipal government setting.
I love how the thing that’s depressingly over the top for you is not that every 28 hours, another black man is killed by police in the US, it’s that bloggers aren’t being moderate enough in their discussion of the police.
No, that is exactly what people have been accusing individual officers OF.
The circling of their wagons to protect the alleged murderers in a way they never protect civilians (other than those with money)… The public servants bullying the mayors… THOSE are a problems.
Yeah, it;'s human nature to petty. Put the fucking badge down the next time youre being a petty dick, officer.
Train yourself better, police your brothers TOO.
Or are you afraid to? I suspect you would be afraid to report brutality, because maybe you know how trustworthy average police officers are, how likely -they- are to follow procedure when they’re petty, angrey, threatened, and scared. How’s your back feeling -after- that internal affairs report you made? Guarded? I doubt it!!!
All we want is daylight. Why are the police SO FOOKIN afraid of the daylight?
Libertarians are very pro-autocracy. There’s also a reason that white supremacist types identify with Ron Paul more than “pro-government” types. Whatever it’s face, it boils down to a notion that a privileged elite should remain in power and be the ones running things. Anti-democracy. Bundy, as white landed gentry, couldn’t be a better poster boy for this in practice. Especially, considering that he thinks that land that belongs to the citizens is his by right.
That was one of the things that was sooooo depressing about Paul’s ridiculous run for President: he was being backed in part by neo-Nazis. And I mean, of course anyone who knows anything about libertarians knows that neo-Nazis are pretty much the opposite of libertarians. Not defending libertarians, but just pointing out that he was getting support from people who, rather than being on-board with his message, were just hoping against hope that he’d win, create a power vacuum, and ahem storm in to take charge.
I’m sadly skeptical that cameras will change much. Start putting cops who murder us behind bars if you we want real change.
As other people stated above, there is a huge void between giving union members a full throated defense in any legal proceedings, and the belligerence we’re seeing.
And frankly, I don’t believe they are serving their full ranks well when they prevent bad cops from being fired That ignores all the lack of trust and anger and us vs them mentality that gets caused by letting bad cops get away with it. These protests weren’t caused by the mayor, they were caused by years of bad behavior by cops. Weeding the bad ones out would make it a hell of a lot easier for the good ones to do their jobs.
Wouldn’t you like it if people were happy to see you wherever you go, instead of distrustful, nervous, or actively hostile? The reason it isn’t that way is because bad cops have mistreated people with impunity for far too long.
Fair enough. Please understand people are likely responding the way they are because of years of “bad apple” rhetoric with no action to separate them from the bunch.
One thing that would be a huge, huge help would be to have some actual cops stand up and support measures to appropriately discipline bad actors, and to date, I think we’ve seen close to zero. Instead we’ve mostly seen efforts to tar all calls for accountability as disrespectful to all cops.
Cameras will change the evidence.
The evidence is used at trial. Come on man. Stop with the rain cloud and impossible talk.
You already sound beat, whose side are you on?
In the context of labor relations with the city, state, and federal governments, only.
In this context it’s RICO territory. This is corruption. This is not labor relations anymore. The union (the one, of the three) is acting irresponsibly, and clearly needs a new spokesperson if not a new leadership.
The cameras will be filming the citizens more likely. Also, you all realize that much of this has to do with cops getting free for murdering people despite it being right there on camera…
Disarm the police and start sending murderers to prison.
No. That’s you, not your profession. Perhaps it’s the very issue. You see what’s happening… you just don’t own YOUR OWN role in it going down hill. Why would you? You were trained otherwise. There is always a civvie to take your fall and soften your landing with his face, life, and freedom… when you fuck up.
Would be nice for you to cut civvies the same breaks you cut your bro’s… and then see where the conversation is. AFTER you all behave like humans towards us consistently. It’s your job, not mine.
The cameras will be filming -everyone-, naysayer.
Clearly you’re with the fear, uncertainty, and doubt brigade. Thanks for the trollin!
Also, you all realize that much of this has to do with cops getting free for murdering people despite it being right there on camera…
yes, the small percentage of police interactions recorded has led to a huge public outcry. And tiny changes. Slow.
Multiply the evidence by 100x, and what happens to the public outcry? You want more public outcry? TRY WHAT WORKS ALREADY.
Or, you know, keep taking the piss out of everyone elses ideas and see how much you’re believed to be on the same side. So far you seem to be apologizing/defending them against reasonable measures, while stating there needs to be more justice and unreasonable measures.
Just my opinion.
That’s the correct function of the union. Just because management sees themselves as the good guys in the right (do they ever not?) doesn’t mean that they aren’t in many cases the actual bad-actors violating an employees rights. Having said that, the FOP is a pretty unique union, very right wing, and kind of insulated from the goals of the large labor movement. There’s a reason that they are usually exempt from attacks by conservatives. They enforce the existing order of things…
Maybe you can dial it down a little… alright? Cameras are window dressing for fundamental problems. They should not be needed in the first place. I would rather live in a society that goes after the root of problems rather than one thinks filming everybody constantly is progress. This also diverts away from the fact that we have a white supremacist criminal just system where it’s simply OK for police to kill (mostly) black people and face no punishment for it. Cameras won’t fix that.
pretty crucial caveat, though, pretty early in that article:
One key problem: officers control the record button. They decide when to
turn on and off the cameras and have little to fear when violating
department policies about recording, Fusion’s analysis found.
Ia gree with you that they are not getting directly at the fundamental problems, but, if able to be implemented correctly (always on) then they could inject some serious transparency into the problem in the immediate, and wake the slumbering beast of apathy among the American people to make the real, fundamental changes you are talking about.
There is a huge mental hurdle for people to get over created by decades of pro-police procedurals tv shows and movies, combined with a tendency to want the comforting thoughts of society’s orderliness, and I think direct evidence of how brutal police brutality can be is an essential step in shaking that.
I can see that. I guess my argument is that we do have pretty brutal footage pretty often and that it doesn’t change the minds of those in power, or the majority of Americans who’ll find any excuse in that footage to blame the victim.
You can’t really blame the union for all the other unrelated people (judges, juries, prosecutors etc.) that issue no consequences for these actions. It’s the entire criminal justice system with plenty of complicity from regular citizens.
I couldn’t agree more–you hit it on the head. And then the NYC cops turned their backs on the mayor? Good lord, what a terrible message to send.
When the the union fights tooth & nail against even the existence of debate around reform, yeah, I think I can assign them some blame. When the union gets cops that are clearly awful reinstated onto the force, yeah, I think they can take a little more blame.
