My analogy doesn’t say that both are equally bad. But both are bad. I’d rather have a slap in the face than a kick in the nuts, but I’d prefer an option where I had neither done to me. But in this system we are doomed to two choices usually, and often times NEITHER are desirable. And when one doesn’t have a clear preference on who to vote FOR, one just starts voting AGAINST the other. And if one aligns to a party, they are going to vote that party.
But more to the point, I never compared the two directly and ranked how “bad” they were. Neither are people I’d invite to my Bar-B-Que.
I feel like you are taking that comment and the source material too literally. There is no such thing as “truly equal” except in perhaps mathematics. Even in two horrible choices one could find a “better”.
It’s more like the Iocaine powder scene in The Princess Bride. Let’s assume he put a lethal dose in one, and a double lethal dose in the other. One may argue one glass is “better” than the other, but both will kill you (unless you have an immunity as our hero did).
Considering that racism is still a huge problem in the South and Alabama, I don’t think many minorities would vote for Jones and feel “good” about it. That a vote for him isn’t going to make their lives better or alter the status quo. Yes, it probably will be better than with Moore (probably) but they still have to smile and grin while eating that shit sandwich.
And what’s more, they see these latest purges of Democrats as proof that the “Democrat party” and liberals in general were always corrupt and they are only getting what they deserve, and they hope for more of it.
And what’s more to THAT is they disbelieve the allegations against any of the Republicans, even when evidence stares them in the face, and they say, “it’s a smear job, typical liberal BS.”
There is no “winning” in logical terms. That’s why I say use their tactics against them, instead of what we are doing now. It doesn’t make us “just like them.” It gives us the upper hand, so that we can enact policy that takes down their power structures. We have seen how much they can destroy in such a short time. What we haven’t done is make it impossible for them to destroy things when we have the upper hand. We have been so poor at that.
I’m taking your comment as the source material intended.
But again, what you just said was that Jones will likely not be better to his opponent who (when asked when the last time America was great) said:
I think it was great at the time when families were united. Even though we had slavery, they cared for one another. … Our families were strong, our country had a direction
Your insistence that this is the difference between how you want to die when both are going to kill you is literally diminishing how one publicly refers to Native Americans and Asian Americans as “reds and yellows,” and who has literally lost his job twice for choosing his interpretation of the Bible over federal law. Those are not the difference between a poisoned cup and an even more poisoned cup.
But doesn’t that assume that each group of people are just passive consumers of politics, instead of active drivers. Many of those groups have activist deeply involved in the political process, and the appeal to race is a tone deaf attempt to rally around race and it’s complexity, but succeeds in only further essentializing race, I’d argue. Each one of those groups of people have issues that they want to see addressed, and it seems to me that directly addressing them would be a more effective strategy. It seems like this only drives people away and makes them less likely to vote, which has been a problem, especially in off-year, special elections like this one.
I don’t think you’re wrong that it’s pragmatic, I just think it’s part of what is alienating people so very much. I don’t think it’s necessary and I thought that Sanders proved that in his primary run. He lost, yes, but he got much further than any one expected, people were excited for once to have their bread and butter issues addressed, and when pushed on particular issues, he sought to address them in real world ways, instead of just cynically (pragmatically?) sending out racial charged mailers.
But that’s not what’s happening, I think. Go read the article @Mister44 linked to, and see what @Jilly has to say on the issue.
Damn right! Let’s see what Jilly has to say. First of all, thank you for understanding that loyal, southern politics (aka Kappa Alpha) plays a huge role. If your daddy voted one way, you are under such pressure to vote that way too or you won’t be invited to the Junior League cotillion. But, whatever. I’m literally going door to door. Until you’ve knocked on a random door in Alabama and tried to defend a pro-choice stance, I’m not sure you know awkward.
Well, if there is one thing this thread has taught me, leading with, “What if a black guy knocked up your daughter.” might be seen as acceptable to some people and along with altering their stance on abortion, will be promoting a discussion about hypocrisy in race.
Jesus, I can imagine! Keep fighting the good fight, Jilly! It’s southerners like you who are on the front lines in the culture wars. Liberals and progressives in the south always have been.
I understand and your point is entirely legitimate and valid.
I would counter that Alabama Dems have a historical opportunity to win this seat and they are pretty much just desperately trying every angle and pulling every stop to get as many voters pumped and motivated - which simplistic, identity messages are ideal for; But I think that’s just the case of each of us falling on the opposite side of the pragmatic/idealist divide.
But calling it racism? Throwing a clumsy, tone-deaf move in the service of defeating Roy Moore in the same category as segregation and KKK? I just feel that accusations of racism are the rhetorical equivalent of WMDs and should be reserved for appropriate situations.
(Yes, on the very basic, technical level of “distinguishing between categories of people based on the color of their skin” I guess it qualifies as racist - but that isn’t nearly commensurate to the caliber of the label.)
I phone banked today for Doug Jones. Tomorrow … well, we’ll find out. A quick glimpse into my psyche, I’m the person who reads the last page of a book, who reads the synopsis of the movie on Wikipedia before I watch it. As strange as it may seem, I simply can’t take the suspense. I enjoy the story more when I know how it’s gonna end. This is DRIVING ME CRAZY.
Mr. Jilly also grading end-of-semester shit and I’m like “Who cares? Give them all A’s! What does a grade matter when Satan is about to win a senate seat?” He then suggested I needed to calm down, which did not go well.
LOL! Wish him luck from me! Unless he’s still in the dog house, of course! Which he should be! I mean, this is a pretty bad situation right about now, with those of us in the south getting some of the worst of it.
And this is what keeps me up at night. There are many, many good people here but there are also many, many bad people. But who is bad and who is good? My next door neighbor who watches my cat and dog while I’m gone but also doesn’t support Moore but won’t vote for Jones because he’s a democrat? Should I shun her? She’s really nice. I’m in a hurricane of cognitive dissonance because I’m applauding Richard Shelby for not supporting Moore and I can’t keep track of my foxhole romances anymore.
Ah yes. Like when I try to bring up the latest reason for how the country’s going to shit, and they just say “we don’t need your negativity”.
Really? Well, ignoring this isn’t going to make things work out okay. Whistling and having a nice time isn’t going to save you from civil asset forfeiture, or tRump’s government turning the air and water and dirt toxic due to him putting literal dunces in positions of regulatory power who are working on dismantling their own agencies.
