Great, they’re easy targets. What about the ones who aren’t doing that? Who gets to decide?
God, this cyclical reasoning never ends no matter how many threads we burn through or how many times it gets reiterated:
Antifa only exists because fascists exist.
If you use these terms/phrases, you are probably a Nazi
“Anti-White”
“White Genocide”
“White countries…Black countries”
“Chain Migration”
“Confederate/Southern Heritage”
“Cuck”
“Holohoax”
“What about Antifa?”
“Globalist Bankers”
“((( name here )))”
“Semprini”
The closet Nazis have nothing to fear from antifa, because there’s no way to identify them—unlike, say, blacks, Jews, foreigners, out gays, or those with disabilities. That’s the great thing about being a closet Nazi.
What about the ones who aren’t doing that? I guess they don’t get punched?
You asked for criteria, someone gave you criteria. You can disbelieve them, or point out other people will have different criteria, but you can’t tell someone their criteria lead to a slippery slope when they clearly don’t.
Why do you think I believe them? I just want to know where you draw the line. Or do you think it’s not possible to be on the far right without advocating genocide?
So Richard Spencer was what, protesting…? Confronting…an interviewer…?
He was giving an interview. Someone ran up and punched him. For his political views.
So where do you draw the line?
And does being punched this time give him a pass now or do we all get to punch him?
What does constitute an appropriate punishment beating? I mean, Spencer was only punched once, do we need to do it again? Do we need to break something? Should we kneecap him? or maybe a lynching.
Where do you draw the line?
And I’m not talking about self defence here either. People have a right to defend themselves. But with Spencer and all the other nazis and psuedo-nazis and alt-righters and general right wingers and the centre right and centrists etc, I would like to know where you draw the line. At what point do you stop punching people?
And what if I draw the line somewhere different? Who wins? Who decides who gets punched? If you want to punch someone and I don’t, or vice versa?
@anon50609448, I didn’t ask for criteria, I asked where they draw the line. I’m still not clear on that.
I believe it’s not possible to NOT be in favor of ethnic cleansing or genocide if one is a white supremacists, which is part of the far right. At what point did I equate all of the far right with white supremacists. Nazis and white supremacists BASIC POSITION is that they want an ethnically pure nation-state. That does not happen without either ethnic cleansing or genocide. There is no negotiating with that position. And much of the hard right is, if not aligned in part with those views, at the very least they tolerate them when it suits their needs (for example, Reagan’s racist dog whistling in the 1980 election or Thatcher tolerating the racist far right when it suited her needs).
Which includes ethnically cleansing of the United States. He’s been explicit about that point. there is no peaceful way to get there. And he’s the respectable face of racist thugs. That’s the way it’s always worked.
When do they stop asking for the destruction of Jews, black and brown peoples, feminists, LBGQT people, and other political, religious minorities.
Once again, they advocate for violence. Just because they aren’t getting their lily white hands dirty doesn’t mean that they are partially responsible for the violence visited upon others. William Pierce likely never hurt a fly himself, but his writings led directly to Oklahoma City, among other acts of violence committed by white supremacists.
Part of this is about the radicalization of men online. Everyone is concerned with Daesh, but they are studiously ignoring the radicalization of white men into these movements. It’s long known how the leadership of these movements regularly keep their hands clean and depend on “lone wolves” to do their dirty work. Spencer isn’t just innocently debating political points - he’s actively advocating for ethnic cleansing.
How about you decide for yourself what to do, and I’ll decide for myself what I will do if and when the opportunity presents itself? Or are you so conflicted about what to do that you are seeking others opinions to aid in making up your mind.?
I know that I personally consider White nationalists and their apologists/sympathizers a far bigger threat to the well being of me and mine than any radicalized agent of Islam; as Daesh and their ilk are not supported by an entire system of government covertly but inherently built to maintain White supremacy.
Then don’t punch anyone. As for me, I want it to be perilous for fascists to walk the streets.
But your point was
But Spencer wasn’t part of a protest, and wasn’t confronting anyone, but he was punched for his political views.
So the question is, is it always right to punch Richard Spencer, at any time, because he’s advocated a repugnant position?
Sorry, I should have been clearer. I didn’t mean ‘what do they have to do for you to stop punching them?’, I meant, ‘how far away from nazis on the spectrum* does someone have to be for you to consider them not requiring a punch?’
*of nazi to not-nazi, assuming you’re not treating it as a binary condition (in which case where’s the line?)
Where do minority groups that advocate the destruction of other minority groups sit on the whole being punched thing? There’s a lot of homophobia and misogyny out there.
How does punching them in the head help again?
and I’d still like to know what you think constitutes an appropriate punishment beating?
@dommerdoodle, @Heraclito I want to know what happens if we disagree. What if it’s someone you don’t think is a nazi but I do? Should I beat them up, or listen to you?
Because if you don’t think they’re a nazi then they shouldn’t get beaten up for being a nazi, but I’ve just beaten them up for being a nazi. So is that right or wrong? Where do you draw the line?
He was in a public place, and that place happened to be in the midst of a protest at the inauguration in DC. He came to DC to show white supremacist support for the president. It was not at his home or in private. He was on TV, discussing his views and his reason for support for the president. Would I have punched the guy? No. But the person who did took the opportunity to do so.
I’ve been clear about this. White supremacists are not people I have a difference of opinion with. They are always wrong, flat out. They believe that the white race is superior and often wish to create a white ethno-state. That does not happen without violence. This isn’t a disagreement over tax policies or welfare reform or how we deal with the rise costs of health care - these are not people who are reasonable or rational, who will compromise with you. They want all non-whites and all people who support a multicultural state.
Spencer BELIEVES IN ETHNIC CLEANSING. You can’t debate that shit, because it’s not a political view that has shades of grey to it.
They also aren’t running this country, are they. They are not the ones who are trying to ethnically cleanse America RIGHT AT THIS VERY MOMENT. It’s also entirely irrelevant to this conversation.
It reminds them they are not wanted in our society as long as they hold their odious views. It reminds them that there are consequences for advocating for the murder of other human beings.
You can decide that for yourself. As others have said, everyone has different lines in the sand. I can only speak for myself when I say that I’d generally respond to direct threats, which nazis and white supremacists are pretty well known for, in real daily life. White supremacists have an incredibly long track record of much, much more than punching people. They have consistently employed violence on a massive scale to get what they want. They dragged us into a civil war to ensure white supremacist and then formed terrorists organizations to restore it after. Thousands of Americans were lynched to maintain white supremacy. And after civil rights, they continued to work as best they could to maintain the last vestiages of it. The election of obama was the final straw for many, and hence we have an ascendant white supremacists movements, including nazis. They never went away, they simply moved out to compounds and bided their time.
I’m unsure how anyone can disagree with that sentiment.
Went to wrong person, sorry.
Look, If i see a Nazi (identifying himself as such, or espousing that crap) I’m going to punch him and perhaps suffer the consequences. I am not going to fly across country just to punch a Nazi, but these assholes are like whack-a-mole. You have to keep knocking them down until they stay down. If a single punch is enough to keep Spencer from trying to convince people to join his cause, then I say good enough. If he starts up again, I say punch him again, and again, and again, until he learns he’s not wanted (in my neighborhood, town, village, whatever)
If you disagree, so be it, I am not going to judge you for your beliefs.
Martin Niemoller wrote in 1946:
First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out–
Because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out–
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out–
Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me–and there was no one left to speak for me.
Decide for yourself, but I would advise living life with no regrets.
This really isn’t that hard; if you don’t want to punch anyone, then just DON’T.
You are the master of your fate, the captain of your soul, and all that jazz; no one else.
No one here is trying to make your choices for you.
And you get to think whatever you like about the choices other people make.
But you don’t get to tell me or anyone else to just stand there and “turn the other cheek” if someone decides to attack me for the color of my skin, (or if they try to pass laws that harm me) and think that I’ll be ‘okay’ with that. I won’t.
No one ever needs to fear getting punched by me… UNLESS they come for me or my loved ones first.
And yet, through some feat of victim-blaming mental gymnastics, they manage it anyway.
I’ve noticed this trend of White Liberals who seem to prefer their minorities to be Doomed Moral Victors rather than Flawed Survivors. That way, they can claim us as support for their moral positions without any of those messy contradictory opinions.
