35 thousand volunteers from all parts of the world united to combat fascism in spain, most of them opposing their goverment wishes of no intervention. Although the IB were organized by the Communist Intenational, quite a lot of the volunteers didn’t directly adscribed to the communist values: they just though that what was happening in spain was wrong and wanted to fight the fascists (and nazis).
WILLIAM ROPER: So, now you give the Devil the benefit of law!
SIR THOMAS MORE: Yes! What would you do? Cut a great road through the law to get after the Devil?
ROPER: I’d cut down every law in England to do that!
MORE: Oh? And when the last law was down, and the Devil turned ’round on you, where would you hide, Roper, the laws all being flat? This country is planted thick with laws, from coast to coast, Man’s laws, not God’s! And if you cut them down, and you’re just the man to do it, do you really think you could stand upright in the winds that would blow then? Yes, I’d give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety’s sake!
I find it puzzling that you put “obviously evil” in quotes. If Nazis aren’t obviously evil, who is? Are you arguing that evil doesn’t exist? That seems to be supported by your “everybody thinks they’re the good guys” argument. I would argue that some of them (like Nazis) are wrong. Obviously, demonstrably, astoundingly wrong, and the fact that they continue to believe they’re right is where the evil lies.
But to address your main point, punching Nazis IS illegal. People who do it are risking arrest, and that’s their choice to make, not yours. In my opinion, at least, the reason they’re doing it is partly political protest and partly self-defense. Self-defense in the sense that allowing Nazis to speak freely is inherently dangerous to anyone who isn’t a Nazi, in the long run if not the short run (which has historical precedent), and political protest in the sense that the government allows Nazis to speak freely when it should be considered incitement to violence- Nazism is inseparable from a genocidal worldview with no redeeming merits whatsoever. We already have restrictions on other kinds of free speech that are deemed dangerous and worthless to society and morality, such as libel and slander, child pornography, etc. Why should Nazism be an exception? Now put yourself in the shoes of a Nazi-puncher. You see your country (and the world in general) sliding towards fascism, your president refusing to condemn it, and Nazis marching openly in the streets, becoming more and more normalized and accepted. You’re fearful that, if you don’t do something soon, America will become the second Nazi Germany. Do you:
A: Try and outlaw Nazism in a country that elected Donald Fucking Trump
B: Try to politely talk some sense into the people who believe you should be murdered in a concentration camp if you’re not a white male conservative Christian
or C: Punch Nazis in the head until they go back to living in cowering fear of everyone who isn’t a fascist?
None are great choices, but I would hope you can at least comprehend why people would choose C.
I see a lot of the debate centered on trying to equate muslims to nazis. Nazis are a subset of white culture, as in they are predominantly white, and I don’t see many here condemning all whites for the existance of nazis.
I would like to say that a more apropiate comparation would be equating muslim extremists to nazis. And guess what: people is actively prosecuting muslim extremists, detaining them, and “punching them”. I think you even have special places for detaining them that are outside your laws and basically means you can do them whatever you feel that day is appropiate.
So why aren’t you doing with the nazis what you do with muslim extremists?
I don’t want to play for for tat with you. Structured programs to help extremists to extricate themselves from the right-wing scene have their value. But check on the person in question here: a leading figure of the neo-fascists movement, a very public and vocal figure, spearheading extremists talking points to institutions of education.
Likely, for every KKK member opting out of the Klan because Daryl Davis convinced them the KKK is fucking with their minds and the future and safety of everyone, the likes of this arsehole Spencer are recruiting at least 10 new members.
And that is a conservative estimate.
And just FTR, I haven’t heard of Daryl Davis. I’m not based in the US. But I have heard that Spencer was doing a campus tour, and was met with non-violent protest more often than with violence.
Also, I have heard of people punch nazis, in the US. Reminder, I haven’t heard of Davis.
And this, in a way, does underline the importance of punching them. Nobody who opposes nazis shall ever feel alone, or outnumbered. For everyone punching a nazi, there are hundreds of people who, like me and you, rather try to have a discourse. But I, for one, do acknowledge the encouraging effect of Nazis punched, in pictures, statues, and real life.
It’s not about the nazis being “irrational” (although they are), it’s about them advocating racial genocide.
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The powers that be arent “us.”
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White nationalist and Nazis are members of the dominant racial group.
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Given the country’s racial demographics, the powers that be have a much easier time dividing-and-conquering by demonizing black and brown people than by demonizing a subset of the white population. Anyway, why would they do the latter when the white subset has fallen for the elite’s racist divide-and-conquer tactics?
I’m sorry. Seems that, english not being my first language betrayed me. The question was poised to be a rethorical one.
Besides that, I totally agree with your points. My government has exactly the same position.
Typo: “When Hitler joined the NDP (precursor to the Nazi Party), we was the 55th member”
Look, I know that you’re a White Christian Guy and it’s part of your culture to do this with threatened minorities, but, please, you don’t have to play Devil’s Advocate. He has enough advocates already.
Yes, it is. Go for it. No double standard there. Don’t be surprised if you’re mistaken for a notzee though.
The ones who believe in only a little genocide, a small bit of slavery, and just slightly second-class citizens.
/s
On the side of the Republicans.
Nice play on Dr. King, but I might remind you that Dr. King advocated non-violence. The problem is that Nazis are easy targets - antifa also targets capitalists, and anyone who doesn’t mesh with their anarchist agenda. So they lead riots at World Economic Forum meetings, and when there are no Nazis around they’ll find someone else to attack.
BTW, whoever said that violence is their last tactic is just full of it. Anarchists have been blowing things up for over a century.
Jesus, you really don’t understand that fighting nazis is a matter of self-defense?
Do you really think antifa aren’t opposed to Wahhabism? I think you’ve constructed a bogeyman of the left that doesn’t cohere with reality.
Well I guess you’ve found your magical negro and the only acceptable form of opposition to fascism. Do you also cherry-pick MLK quotes?
Citation please
The only concern I’ve ever had about the antifa revolved around the historical phenomenon of running street battles between Nazis and Communists in Weimar Germany, but that’s not what’s going on here. Unlike the Communist thugs of that period, the antifa are not initiating violence as a matter of policy, are not focused on taking over the government, and are not materially supported by another state actor (which, in a new twist, the current Nazi thugs are).
