I can see why you’re confused. They’re not upset about that. They’re pretending that Wolf said something that she didn’t say, and trying to use that joke as a cover to confuse the issue. (I.e. jokes about someone’s appearance are off limits, so they’re trying to turn that joke into one about Sanders’ appearance, when it isn’t, at all.)
Also assuming they aren’t just being disingenuous about why they’re really upset. The conservative attack machine in particular doesn’t care if something is true - only that they can pretend it is.
I think that’s the issue. MSM is upset in large part because they got called out on being Trump enablers. Also, she’s a woman, so that makes her calling out anyone, but perhaps especially other women on their BS, unacceptable. Colbert wasn’t attacked for saying similar things when he did it. Hooray double standards!
Also, taking the president to task for doing all those awful things is a crisis, apparently.
I feel like I’m trapped in a nightmare where everyone is getting upset about a lack of decorum because someone was rude to a serial killer, not the fact that there’s a serial killer wandering around. It’s highly disconcerting.
False equivalencies are fucking bullshit.
Someone engaging in behavior that’s monstrous doesn’t deserve respect - they deserve to be called out on it.
No, not at all. And I agree about the other individual’s bad behavior. I just think that if we want to teach our children about civility and the sort of language we want them to use, we exhibit the behavior we want to see in them. I have never found the need to refer to other people that way, even those whose behavior I find reprehensible. Maybe it is my Methodist upbringing, but I can be extremely upset with others’ behavior and still speak with language my mother would approve of.
First, let me say, I am not criticizing Wolf, because I have not seen her performance yet—I am speaking in general. I don’t know if she was really obscene or as offensive as some have claimed. I don’t mind roasting people—although most roasts are meant to be in good humor or poking fun, and there is a spectrum from that all the way to very personal, mean and nasty. Having noted that, I think that in general, it is far cleverer to make your point without obscenity, and I far more enjoy those like the court jester who could speak truth to power in a clever way rather than a mean one (it helped them keep their heads).
That’s you. You do you. But as far as I see it, the occasional “fuck” or “shit” isn’t going to really hurt anyone the same way that a sexual predator or someone name calling is. I’d prefer my kid to understand WHEN to use what particular kind of language - hanging out with friends, some profanity isn’t going to hurt (as long as it’s not hurtful to others, as that’s ALWAYS unacceptable). At a job, for example, especially dealing with the public, probably not the best time for the swears.
personally, I’ll take someone swearing vs. someone who is bigoted, mean-spirited, or condescending but would not even say damn ANY day of the week. But that’s just me.
I also saw someone saying that the comparison to Aunt Lydia from the handmaid’s tale was making fun of her appearance. Of course in doing so that person was basically calling Ann Dowd (the actress who plays Aunt Lydia) ugly. The irony was entirely lost on them, of course.
That was actually the cruelest thing in the entire bit. Everyone who is squawking about Sanders’ eye makeup (which she actually complemented, even if only as a vehicle to call her a liar) should really think about that line. That was to the republicans, the democrats, and the press. It was saying, “You guys are all a bunch of horrific failures.” And it was not a joke at all.
“I see Ray Nagin is here from the chocolate city of New Orleans. Welcome to Washington DC, the chocolate city with a mashmallow center.”
It was not nice. (It was hilarious, and just like with Wolf, I wondered what the hell they were thinking when they asked him to host)
I will say that I found this a mischaracterization:
It was fun watching people like Maggie Haberman and Mika Brzezinski publicly announce how appalled they were
So Mika Brzezinski did say she found the jokes inappropriate, and that she really didn’t like watching Sarah Huckabee Sanders being humiliated and obviously in pain. She also said that she thought it was funny and that he was looking forward to Wolf’s upcoming netflix special, and defended Wolf in the same way Colbert did: basically asking what the hell anyone expected.
She wasn’t so much critical of Wolf as of the whole format of the correspondents dinner, and how it plays in this political climate.
Of course as for not liking to see Sarah Sanders humiliated, Brzezinski and the others on Morning Joe call her a liar all the time. Not mincing words, but saying the word “lies” over and over and over. I don’t know why it’s so much more objectionable to say that to someone’s face than it is to say it to a mass audience.
Perhaps we come from different worlds. I don’t appreciate the way the President behaves, didn’t vote for him and would be happy to explain that to his face given the opportunity, but I would simply use different language than others. Also, I am not saying that it might not be outrageously funny—I can find very inappropriate stuff hilarious. I don’t mind comedians using obscenity, and it can be very clever. That doesn’t mean I want to say hurtful things. It is all about how you use it. Some of my comments on obscenity were more related to the other poster commenting on her use of obscenity to discuss some coaches of a kids sports team and her dismay that others on FB were upset with her. I was simply noting that using that sort of language on FB to describe the coaches was a little different and that it was more a matter of thinking that to teach our kids to be civil and act respectfully, perhaps we should mirror it.
I think the point of disagreement here is that profanity in and of itself is direspectful. Not all of us here agree that it is necessarily. It’s all about context. In the case that @anon61833566 was talking about, it was a FB post that was their opinion about what the real problem was (the coach, who is presumably the responsible adult and who was themselves NOT modeling good behavior that was being criticized in the OP) and they get called out for using profanity when talking to other adults. The thing that upset them was that the same people give the POTUS a pass for doing some seriously reprehensible things and gets a pass, despite being ONE OF THE MOST VISIBLE PEOPLE ON THE PLANET and they get chided for saying shit and asshole. One of those people are truly a bad role model, and it’s seriously NOT @anon61833566 in this case.
Oh man I briefly dated a guy who was nice enough but quiet about his opinions until way too late for my tastes (white business class guy over 40 I should add). Slowly I got to know him, and while he was generally a decent person, I broke it off because let’s just say I realized we had incompatible world views and he had kids so there was that. At no point have I ever thought I’d make a good parent, and I definitely don’t think I could handle stepparent… I was more consolation trophy GF and I knew it. I’m glad I did this though because I’ve never really gotten to know the kind of person who feels this way before. I recall coming back to his house in his Audi because of course it’s an Audi SUV and by some mechanism of conversation he uttered his frustration with society today: “Don’t you ever miss the old days, you know, when a person could say what they want?”
At this moment I realized this was a small safe chance to say something I wanted to say which was “WHO could say what they wanted, me or you? Because I can’t think of a time in the past when I could say what I wanted and I’m pretty sure I can think of a lot of people I know who also couldn’t because it’s actually dangerous and unsafe just to exist for them.”
He deferred for the time, but I got sick of dad jokes about who wears the dress every goddamned time there was a male gay couple in a restaurant and disgusted comments about women with gasp short hair who look like men. This is the exact dynamic and I just hate it so much. People so entitled and used to dishing it but not taking it that they don’t even notice the cognitive dissonance that permeates their existence.
My mother was a teacher. That’s just not my path. Damned fools can learn from someone else.
As with many abusive social situations, we see the abused members being pressured both externally and internally to smooth over the relationship while the abusers keep free rein… after all, it’s so much easier to convince the reasonable party to bend than the one that’s frothingly delusional.
If you as an adult cannot take me as an adult using “bad language” when referring to the “bad behavior” of other adults…my use of an obscenity is not the issue.
Case in point…I was called to my oldest son’s school when he was in 4th grade. The principal (mind you he is one of 3 through the school - her and I know one another well) said he used profanity in the classroom and the teacher, her, and I needed to discuss it. I was awaiting the teacher to tell me he dropped an f-bomb of course as most parents would. He was not in the room it was just the adults…I asked “What did he say?” She stammered and hemmed and hawed and couldn’t bring herself to say it. Finally she said, “I told the class to put their books away we were having a pop quiz, and he said a curse word under his breath.” I expected her to just say “the f-word”…nope. Finally she exclaimed with much dismay and revulsion…“He said ‘oh h-e-double hockey sticks!’”
It was at that exact moment I stood up and said…“Are you fucking kidding me? This is a public school…you take that catholic bullshit and get out of my kid’s face.” turned to the principal and asked “Laurie, are we done here?” She said “We absolutely are, I am sorry you had to come down for this. The teacher and I will have a discussion.”
In that woman’s world saying “god dammit” or “oh hell” is akin to dropping an f-bomb…I do not live in that world. I live in the real world where in language is nuanced and context and intent matter to the way in which we use language. If my son has told his teacher “Go to hell.” I would have treated it very differently than “Oh hell.” at learning there was a pop quiz.
If you feel me exclaiming “Damn that was one helluva awesome fucking dinner” after Thanksgiving dinner with the kids is inappropriate, you wouldn’t be wrong. BUT…that’s not what I said or did. I stated that “a group of individuals do not give a shit about being respectful to the fields on which they play…they care about winning and that’s it because they are assholes” I am not wrong with my statement nor use of language. I wasn’t addressing a bunch of kids, I wasn’t representing the soccer association or town. I was stating my opinion to another adult as to the cause of the issue at hand. I did not denigrate a race, creed, religion, ethnicity, culture, gender, or sexual identity. In fact the group I bad-mouthed was Soccer Coaches of which I am one of them.
If that is so upsetting to yours or anyone else’s delicate sensibilities and feel I am not modeling good behavior…too bad. I really don’t give a damn.
I was pretty shocked when reading the reports that cited Wolf using language too obscene to be printed… and it was “pussy.” They couldn’t deal with the word “pussy.” I don’t even consider that an obscenity.
(It’s undoubtedly a crude word, and a sexist one when used to call a person weak, but… really.)
