Senators accuse Saudi crown prince of complicity in Khashoggi murder


Originally published at:


We support and sell to the ruthless all the time. I’m not sure that anyone suddenly developed a conscience over one man. Pretext is prelude. We know the pretext, I’m just curious about what this is a prelude to.


President Pence?


I don’t think so, or at least not directly. If that’s an issue, I think it’s down the road a ways, and this would be a minor detail in making Pence a viable candidate. There’s an old guard when it comes to national security, and it’s been pretty bipartisan. I think this is them pushing back, but I’m not sure why. My sense of it is that they feel like maybe MbS is too high profile and too loud to support American interests in the region effectively. But there is a real fear of regime-change in the KSA. I don’t think they really want to stop selling weapons, but I do think that they want to threaten enough that it pushes MbS out. They definitely want a new boss that’s the same as the old boss, but this boss is a problem for Washington.


Why would that matter, a Pence presidency? What leads you to believe his policy in the Middle East would be any different (leaning towards the Saudis in the regional Cold War). Trump’s policy in the mid east is driven by the same people - both the far right christian zionists and the far right anti-Iran, arms dealers. A Pence presidency won’t change that in the least, since he gets support from both of those groups already.


Not that they care particularly, but the murder of Kashoggi has put an enhanced spotlight on the Saudi’s conduct of the war in Yemen, and what amount to war crimes in the treatment of civilians. Politically, it looks pretty bad. They’re happier when such things can be kept on a smaller scale and out of the public eye.


True, but these are more public displays of piety more than actual policy shifts.


"In a rare instance of opposition against Trump, GOP senators are calling for an end to arms sales to the Saudis."


“There’s not a smoking gun, there’s a smoking saw,” -Sen. Lindsey Graham

They know that the saw was smoking from heavy use? JHC


What a shame, and he seems like such a nice guy…


Sen. Grahams’ office:

Knock Knock

Who’s there?
Boeing who?
Boeing put an aircraft manufacturing facility in your state Boeing.
Boeing who?
Boeing sells airplanes to Saudi Arabia Boeing
Boeing who?
Boeing sells weapons and fighter jets to Saudi Arabia Boeing
Boeing who?
Boeing who donates to your campaign Boeing

Ohhhhh, that Boeing. Come on in! Sit down and have a drink.

(Graham isn’t going to do anything that affects Boeing business)

Knock Knock

Who’s there?


I’m glad they’re pushing to stop the US from selling weapons to the Saudis who use them for mass murdering civilians. I wish they made the decision because they were using the weapons to mass murder civilians, but… /shrug. I really wish they were serious about it, though.

I’m sure Trumpie will rail against any pushback, which will be amusing. He’s already inflated the hundred or so jobs that the arms deal would have created into a million jobs. (Which is utterly mind-boggling; I don’t know how anyone on this planet can take him seriously at this point - I mean, the entire US defense industry doesn’t even employ a million people collectively.) I look forward to seeing how many jobs this minor, unconfirmed arms deal will turn into now.


The thing about “accuse” is that it’s something you do with words.

Calling for an end to arms salves to the Saudis is also a use of words.

Wake me up when Bob Corker actually votes for anything that would oppose Trump.


So they rotate him out with some other prince and then we are back to business as usual?


You broke the code!


I suspect a Pence presidency would be worse. Trump may be driven by those interests, but Pence is to his very deep Mommy issues a part of this group. His whole self-image and being are wrapped up in Dominionist philosophy. So no, getting rid of Trump will not make things better on the authoritarian front, I do not think.




If he is the decider, I am OK with that.


Pence is a terrible person, but I don’t think he would be worse as a president. Or perhaps, he couldn’t actually do worse as a president. If he becomes president because Trump is impeached, it means that Mueller got enough solid dirt on him to turn the Senate. And there’s no way Pence is getting through that without taking some hits. And the House would still be in Democrat control.


He speaks above a 5th grade level so that’s a win in my book.