Yeah, but I don’t want to spend time with someone I have to convince to wear a mask. If they’re that dim/sociopathic, I can find better things to do with my time.
The parallels between the two wrt religious/toxic masculinity are depressingly deep.
Exactly. Same thing with a condom. The response to all four excuses is the same - one of us is heading for the nearest exit.
How come all the suggested condom responses involve the woman doing a ton of emotional labour to protect the fragile male ego? What’s wrong with, “Okay, we won’t be fucking, then. It was nice meeting you.”?
“…And by ‘nice’ I mean ‘I would like to leave now safely.’”
And yet they would compete with you for respirators and intensive care should you by any ill turn of fate become infected.
I’m annoyed that dudes still get away with trying to not use a rubber. Dudes who refuse to use a rubber should never get laid. Aids has been around for forty fucking years now. Society should have tossed all of these guys in the garbage by now.
Related to this depressing phenomenon. (This would totally work where I live, sadly):
It’s all marketing and catering to someone’s ego.
I have given up servicing people’s egos.
The Onebox here is showing a pull-quote that I can’t find a workaround for, so I apologize if it sounds creepy in this thread, given the topic. It is meant to deplore the kind of special treatment that the selfish and ignorant so often require.
I just can’t manage to give grownups the same kind of special patience I reserve for two-year olds. This is I am sure one of my major moral failings: expecting adults to act differently than children in key areas of life. Servicing narcissists is what got the U.S. into a massive long-term mess in the first place. I can’t muster one more ounce of Milk of Human Kindness right now. All’s I got left is a shred of restraint to not dope-slap.
It’s the same thing with condoms, masks, and racism. The emotional burden falls on those who are, more often, more emotionally mature. Ironically, it’s those offended by the request to essentially stop being self-centered who tend to “get emotional” and fly off the handle.
The general tone of all of these is basically, if some is behaving like a toddler then you need to talk to them like one if you want to get a positive result.
I mean, the “dick nose” wearing of a mask would make some sense on this…
Probably won’t work as well on the Karens…
I 100% agree with your assessment, and walking away is a totally good response. I just want to step in and defend what the sex educator is doing here (not the systemic misogyny that creates the environment in which they are doing it).
Feeling uncomfortable negotiating over condoms probably means it’s the first time with that person, maybe the first time ever. That might seem harder to walk away from if you are horny and really attracted to the partner. So I think the advice is to help a group of people who might feel torn, who might have a very adamant 16-year-old brain telling them this is likely their only chance in their whole life to have sex, and who therefore might decide that the risk isn’t too high. Being armed with a tactic that can work would be very handy in that situation.
I’m pretty sure they aren’t parallels. By which I mean, it’s the same wellspring that gifts us both shitty attitudes and associated behaviors…
I’m also pretty sure all the conversations listed end with “fuck your feelings” and no change in mask non usage.
Some people aren’t so fortunate that they can just cut the anti-maskers out of their life. A lot of times it’s parents, close family members, or entire friend groups. Walking away from your entire emotional support structure is definitely easier said than done.
I think you’re both saying versions of the same idea, and I have the same concern about it. I think you’re both right to a certain degree- you have to meet people where they are to communicate effectively.
However (and this is more directed at the sex educator in question, not either of you) this very easily crosses into “not my problem” territory. Much like it’s not the job of every black person to explain why Thing X is racist- it’s on white people to learn how to be better people. It’s not womens’ job to teach men how not to be manipulative rapey douchebags. Maybe getting rejected by all the girls at 16 will show them they’d better learn about consent and condom use.
Yeah, I think the sex educator is worried about the wellbeing of the 16-year-old who isn’t trying to teach anyone anything and just really wants to have sex. If we tell that 16-year-old, “You have to walk away, no matter how much you want to have sex, because it’s the only way to teach the anti-condom people,” we’re still expecting them to be the adult in the situation, just in a different (and I think very unrealistic) way. Telling them, “Walking away is a good option, but if you do want to have sex here are some ways to help bring them around on the condom issue” helps them to get the outcome they want out of the situation.
Well, the message I’m suggesting isn’t “that’ll show 'em”, it’s “you have self worth and can make your own choices. Also boys will do anything in their power to pressure you into sex their way”.
That would be great, but it isn’t what she’s saying. Walking away isn’t in there anywhere. It’s “here’s how to talk your way out of getting raped or pregnant at 16”.
I’m not a sex educator and shouldn’t presume to tell anyone how to do their job. But since there’s a double message in there anyway, how about instead of “Here’s how to have sex your way and it’s your job to fix men”, the message is “Here’s how to have sex your way and you can walk away at any time”.
Unless there’s a shortage of horny 16yo boys that I don’t know about, I’d rather women not be indoctrinated into the system whereby all emotional weakness in men is our job to fix.
Pragmatically, I think “walking away” is a much harder thing for someone to do than insisting someone wears a condom.
I think a hard line stance like that certainly will work for some people (and a legit option), but not everyone is as assertive as that. Add in the fact there is often emotions and longing in the mix, walking away isn’t want they actually want either.
Certainly “walking away” should be the ultimate action if the other person doesn’t concede or possibly agreeing to “do other stuff”.
I agree it’s bullshit one party has to do the heavy lifting on this issue. Hopefully sex educators can make headway on the boys so that there doesn’t have to be a conflict.