Yeah, I’ve definitely had that experience. The thing that I find complicated is that there is no escape. Everybody has an idea of how you’re “supposed” to live, talk, eat, etc. I found that there was no end of oppression outside of religion, and came to the conclusion that the issues, as always are not reducible to simple causes. A lot of blame falls at the feet of superstition, but when you really think about it, people behave very badly given ostensibly rational bases for social contracts. Just look at how Americans behave with regards to something like the constitution, or most recently, “due process.”
When I became very disillusioned with the American left, I went looking for hope in the Arab left, and while some things about it were refreshing, I found the same problems I found on the American left and the same problems I found in religion: That humid environment born out of an ape-like desire for tribalism and control. This time it was rooted in secular but residual sectarian fault lines, but there’s always a surface phenomenon–and the more you examine it, the more you realize it’s more than even that.
What’s your evidence of that being relevant here, Mr. Skeptic?
I mean, you shouldn’t do you always… sorry if that offended or if my debating skills aren’t up to your standards.
Okay… her quote…
She’s noting that she believes that any theologian (presuming she means those within the Abrahamic tradition, since she’s primarily always been within those traditions), does rest on an assumption that others are wrong. You’re correct. Theologians, like many other types of people engaged in the process of some kind of knowledge production regularly make truth-claims.
I’d still argue that assuming that she was some how tricked into converting because of her mental illness (which really is just another way to say that she’s not intelligent enough to make her own choices) is not a judgement you can really make, given that you don’t know what’s really in her head and why she made this choice.
But again, feel free to feel however you want about it. Always, or sometimes, or never, or whatever perfect word I can insert to let you know that I’m not a dummy.
Yes, groupthink is not the exclusive domain of religion. However, religion is one of the most pernicious instances of it, where the leaders claim that the group think comes not from them, but from god, and who are you, mere minion, to argue with god.
However, as the GOP is proving, racist nationalism can do much the same thing, and can lead to unthinking behavior, violence and opression. But religion, I think, gives legs to the group think, as countries and empires come and go, but Christianity and Islam (and some others) continue. Neither religion nor rabid nationalism are especially rational, which makes it hard to use reason to counter them.
It’s almost like human beings are not the rational actors that we’re made out to be! To be fair, I also believe that logic and rationality are generally contextual and rarely, if ever, universal…
Wait what?!* ZOMG! His work and the work of some of his contemporaries kicked off science, society and technology studies… Restivo is interested in his network actor theory as a useful (portion of a) reconstruction of objectivism.
Restivo, S. (2011). Red, Black, and Objective: Science, Sociology, and Anarchism, chapter 4: Science Studies: Sociological Theory and Social Criticism, pages 73–97. Ashgate Publishing Limited.
At first I read this as “no intelligent journey leads to one religion,” and I gave it a like. I had to do backsies on re-read. There are many many intelligent folks who are believers. I just think they get it wrong when they think their religion is the only right one.
This gives her standing to get up on stage on TV and tear up the Prophet Mohammed’s portrait. Had she done this while Catholic it would have made her seem like a racist, but now she can do it with impunity. I wonder which portrait she’ll use.
I mean, she tore up a picture of the pope, not jesus… and I’d say, given what we do know about the cover ups, in the US, Ireland, and other places, she’s been rather vindicated now. I’d also say that her action was not about god or even jesus, but about a powerful institution that abused her and thousands of others. She was rebelling about the actions of human beings, not theological constructs.
