Terrorism in New Zealand

#311

I said exactly that to my wife last night. “Greater love has no man than that he lay down his life for his friends.” This man is a true hero.

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#312

Thanks for posting about him. Also thanks for the verbatim quote, as I refuse to link to news which feature the name of the terrorists, and my sources die that.

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#313

No details yet, but my first thought was “fuck fuck fuck it all. Not again.”

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#314

Shit, I have friends who live in Utrecht.

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#315

The situation is still unclear after the latest press conference.

From de Volkskrant live blog, translation by Gtranslate, emphasis mine:

"Counterterrorism Coordinator Pieter-Jaap Aalbersberg confirms in a press conference that shooting has taken place at various locations. Shortly before the press conference, the police spokesperson informed Utrecht that shooting had not taken place at multiple locations. So these stories contradict each other, and it is still unclear what is right.

The perpetrator is a fugitive. The NCTV cannot exclude a terrorist motive. The highest threat level applies in the city of Utrecht until 6 pm. The coordinator said that there are several victims to regret, whether he meant killing is unclear."

Fuck this.
Whatever it is, at least one person is dead.
And I do not want to focus on the one who killed this person. Fuck. This. Shit.

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#316

Of course, it’s easy if you draw the line right at murderous intent. It’s when trying to decide who else besides the most obvious candidates are feeding into his rage or providing a substrate for it that it gets hard.

Absolutely true.
So it’s clear what side of the line those networks are on.

Then let’s add Breitbart and unzensuriert.at (you probably wouldn’t know it, it’s a local Austrian thing).

But then it starts to get fuzzy. I’d love to add every Muslim who thinks that apostates deserve the death penalty, but then I’d be adding whole countries full of actual people who spend most of their time just minding their own business.

Wait… did you just imply that Trump was “circumspect”?
Anyway, I’ve heard of other killers quoting Mohammed. And others quoting the Bible. I’ve heard people are quoting Marx, too. So no, I do not think that murderers get to name other guilty parties just by quoting them.

I’ve met plenty of Haider’s (or nowadays, Strache’s – Haider is long dead) voters.
Only a few of them are actually hateful, most are just rubes. Most of them are, in fact, decent people. They wouldn’t dream of condoning murder.

However, you are right: their mere presence on the political spectrum enables more radical variants of the ideology to exist.

But consider: Harmless leftist ideology “enabled” the “Rote Armee Fraktion” that killed 33 people (not counting perpetrators) in Germany over the years 1971-1993.
Pointing out that the views held by the Al-Azhar University in Cairo on the matter of “apostasy” are positively barbaric “enables” those who think that Islam itself is a problem.
Not pointing it out “enables”, well, the assholes at Al-Azhar who claim that people should be killed for leaving their religion.

We can find an excuse to accuse everyone of enabling something. Which is why, whenever someone commits an act of ideologically motivated violence, the opposing side in the political spectrum scrambles to get as many people as possible declared to be “on the murderer’s side”.

Now I do want to score political points against viewpoints I disagree with. There are countless areas where Austria’s current right-wing government is doing real harm. Almost half of the voting population would agree with me on this.

But people have died. I do not want to use that to score a point on
any of the usual left-vs-right issues where society is split in the middle.

#317

Holy fuck. The idea of my kids playing that makes me feel a little sick.

And there is something to feel even sicker about.

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#318

I’ve just got confirmation that they are OK. It doesn’t make the news any less shitty, but the personal connection isn’t there anymore.

A friend of my brother was killed in the Cumbria mass shooting in 2010. Knowing one person killed that way is one too many for anybody.

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#319

Thanks for sharing.
The fuckshit is still developing, but it’s good to know that your friends are safe.

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#320

It seems post mass-shooting gun reform happens fast in a country where the only justification for semi-automatics seems to be that they’re useful for culling deer or goats from a chopper.

Already in NZ…

  • Some gun owners have voluntarily handed in their semi-automatic firearms to be destroyed.

  • The government has committed to law change within 10 days.

  • The leaders of both blue and red teams say change is needed.

  • Ebay equivalent Trade Me is removing all listings for semi-automatic guns and parts form its website.

  • Hunting & Fishing New Zealand stores have pulled all "military-style" semi-automatic firearms from sale nationwide.

  • New Zealand Deerstalkers’ Association (NZDA) says it “hoped the government would not be too extreme in its gun law reform but will cooperate and make proposals so people who have invested money in those firearms are not left out of pocket.”

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#321

So much sanity. :heart:

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#322
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#323
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#324

Like the band KMFDM, because they quoted lyrics on their website. And two of their members were German at the time, so of course they had to be Nazis. (They aren’t.)

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#325

I was just coming here to post that:

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#326

There’s no country whose population comes close to accepting the death penalty 100%, let alone due to superstititious nonsense. The leaderships of some of those countries may promulgate those policies, but they’re monarchies or theocracies where elections (if they exist at all) offer little to no choice.

Compared to out and proud white supremacists, yes. He still has to dance around the issue when he makes appeals to that portion of his base. That, combined with his high profile and power, is what makes him (and by extension those who voted for him) a significant part of the problem.

Mohammed, the authors of the Bible, Marx, and Il Douche. Remind me again which one of them is actively fomenting a political programme of hatred (hint, it’s the one who’s still breathing). Another difference to consider: only one of the above’s teachings can’t be practised in a truly loving and tolerant manner.

Studying history, one quickly learns that the problem is as much about the bystanders who neither condone nor oppose the oppressors as it is about the murderers. You hear it time and time again: “he was my neighbour for years. Our kids went to school and played together. We borrowed each-others tools. And yet he stood by silently when the authorities dragged us out of our home.” Decent people, friends and neighbours.

Discussing the fact that this killer was, by his own statement, influenced by other right-wing populist bigots is not “point-scoring”. It’s making an observation. That’s true even if it makes you uncomfortable about the people you know who somehow managed to vote for Haider or Strache despite their decency.

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#327

The unspeakable harridan disagrees with her. Fuck her.

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#328

Ew…

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#329

I can’t look, but I do have to wonder – how in the holy hell can she justify that??

“Yes Suzie, of course it’s a load of damaging, murderous nonsense, but kinda like the good people on both sides in that Nazi march on Charlottesville, there’s some good thoughts in there too.” :grimacing:

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#330

Bit close to the bone perhaps, but right on about media complicity.

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