Kids need to learn that they have to operate from a position of recognizing that police are dangerous. Every child of color has to learn that from their parents, to protect themselves. Every girl needs to learn that. Who’s left, who doesn’t need to have that be their default opinion for self preservation? White (looking) guys.
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A straw man is an argument no one is making. Which doesn’t appear to be the case as some people are making the argument. I prefaced my original reply with the assumption some of if was tongue in cheek, but I was told it isn’t tongue in cheek for “anyone who isn’t white.”
So no, it isn’t a straw man. Maybe what you think I am saying is straw man, but I am disagreeing with something specifically said. If I was totally making a straw man people wouldn’t be telling me I am wrong, they would be like, “Well yeah, not all cops are like that. You’re right we shouldn’t assume the negative stereotype for all cops.” Indeed I am told I am blind to all the problems (which I readily acknowledged) and that the original statement reflects reality.
I’m not the one making straw men.
I’ve known several cops and things like the killing of Tamir Rice disgust and anger them. I don’t know if they would have said that publically. Part of the problem is definitely the complicity of other cops when a cop does something terrible. There is a lot of pressure to close ranks, defend the blue line, no matter what. The them v. us mentality is present both in cops and civilians and just exacerbates that pressure to close ranks. As does judging all cops by the bad ones. I’m not saying that excuses cops defending bad cops. They shouldn’t do that. But the pressure is there and it would take a brave person to speak up and endure the hostility and judgement of people on whom they depend in dangerous situations.
I think a lot of the problems we see with cops could be prevented with more training on deescalation techniques, how to interact with mentally ill or impaired people, and emphasis on non-lethal force. As well as more training by the people who hire cops and more psychological testing to weed out the ones who are not suited to be in a position of power over others. Oh, and paying cops more so better qualified people would take the job. Though the single thing that would help the most is actually punishing cops when they do something wrong and illegal.
We should be spending money on those things instead of surplus DOD tanks and other militarization crap
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Here’s a practical remedy: Social work degrees and no more firearms for regular law enforcement and phased in over 3 years.
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You’re making a straw man because no one said that.
Maybe you should.
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You said it - when I gave you the benefit of the doubt of not being literal, you confirmed it (for some people). Christ. Are you just trolling? You didn’t really mean it? The others saying that the discrimination is different because reasons don’t agree with your statement?
Re: Race, I mean I don’t have to warn her cops are going to target her for her race. Judging a person by the content of their character and not their skin color is already something I have instilled.
Cite, please?
You are the only one trying to make that argument.
That’s the point everyone here is making and you are either missing or ignoring.
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In one post I shortened it to paraphrased the long list of bad things into just “bad”. Now you are going to tell me all of those thing aren’t what you meant?
I’ve acknowledge it repeatedly. You seem to be missing or ignoring the point that when cops discriminate it is a bad thing, but assuming all cops are like that is EXACTLY like what they are doing and just as bad.
But by all means, teach the hate, this will reaffirm the cops biases, bring more cops to agree with that bias, which will reinforce your bias, and we can just keep repeating the downward spiral.
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Tsk tsk, will you never get it?
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Enjoy your white privilege, dude.
If you dismiss and slap away someone reaching out wanting to find middle ground, and one who agrees with most of the criticism, you may want to think about rethinking your tactics if you actually want to hope to change minds and make things better.
This is something we may all consider doing when we discover we may be capable of rehearsing only one of multiple positions in a policy discussion.
If the point @M_Dub is patiently explaining is truly understood, then try charitably repeating the premises, evidence, logic and conclusion — for the sake of discussion ---- until there is shared acknowledgement of that basic understanding.
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If you think that you’re effectively “reaching out” to people who are upset about systemic police abuse by derailing the discussion with an already-heard-it-many-times accusation that they’re branding ALL cops as monsters (even though they’re not), you may want to think about rethinking your tactics.
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Like this?
^not my view, but again acknowledging the problem.
Different options isn’t derailment. Especially when I agree with the problems at hand, I just disagree in some of the attitudes reflected.
I didn’t just come out waving the “not all BLANK” card. The specific comment was about teaching kids that cops were “untrustworthy, lying, aggressive, trigger-happy thugs who will beat, maim, or kill you without warning, provocation”. There is a difference between telling them of the dangers in the world, with out labeling the whole police force.
But yes, I guess if you have an “us vs them”, black and white mentality, where I am either with you 100% or against you - then I guess one can see where one would feel it is derailment.
The exception has swallowed the rule.
How do we concede that some law enforcement are systematically “untrustworthy, lying, aggressive, trigger-happy thugs who will beat, maim, or kill you without warning, provocation” and then decide to withhold those facts from others … esp. African-American children?
And more importantly, we’re advising African-American parents how to teach their children about law enforcement? Don’t do that.
Telling parents how to teach their kids is usually a heavy lift. It’s esp. heavy if asking them to lie.
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If you can’t see how that right there is yet another example of you waving the “not all BLANK” card, well, there’s nothing left for me to say.
Disagreeing with “attitudes,” instead of with interpretations of the topic at hand, IS derailment. It’s so common that it has a name; it’s called a “tone argument.” Might wanna bone up on that, ya?
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Sigh - I never suggested that. Am I padded in straw, because I have made the same statement repeatedly to prevent confusion.
The original comment was a blanket statement, with no nuance. When giving the benefit of the doubt I was told that is the reality for non-whites. Adding the word “some” or simply acknowledging “Yes, many if not most cops aren’t like that” on top of “but there are cops very much like this and we need to make sure people are aware of them.” would have lead me to agree with them 100%.
Despite my repeated acknowledgment of the problems, after 100+ comments the best I can hope to acknowledge the original statement may be a bit unfairly broad is basically “Of COURSE we don’t mean ALL cops. I mean, duh, that’s obvious.”
I suggested it.
And we can assume — for the sake of discussion — that the issues present with only some law enforcement and only sometimes in a systematic way.
African-American parents still have the same problem of what to tell African-American kids about law enforcement.
As long as most “good cops” are complicit, or even actively helping murderers walk free without consequences, no cops can be trusted as a given.
That’s why I consider all cops dangerous unless I already personally know them and know they won’t be violent with me.
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