If that happened I would be Jack’s Complete And Utter Lack Of Surprise.
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True dat… she’s always been an authoritarian bigot but since becoming PM we’ve found out how grossly incompetent she is simply because she lacks the ability to fucking listen. Not that long ago people felt sorry for her if you can believe it but after suffering the biggest defeat on a vote in 1000 years of parliament i think such sympathy has gone the way of the idea of britain’s prosperous future - into the dustbin of history.
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Someone needs to make a Firefox extension that hides all the Brexit commentary that calls someone or something stupid (or some variant thereof).
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The NI border issue was there on day one before the referendum vote. Whenever raised, the Brexiteers pooh-poohed it and / or said a customs union would apply anyway so no border control needed (or some magic technologuy would make it go away). And then May set some red lines that basically contained their own inherent contradiction - they meant that the only logical outcome was a hard border. But even May knew that would be bad and given her red lines could thus only do a deal that contained a ‘backstop’ that meant, in principle, that the French could frustrate any trade agreement post-Brexit that denied them whatever they wanted re acces to British fishing waters or the Spanish to prevent a deal if we did not give up Gibraltar. Both these are hypothetical examples of things that could prevent any trade deal and lead to the ‘backstop’ being enforced. So no way the ultra-Brexiters would vote for that. Hence the whole thing has turned into a completely predictable omnifuckclustershambles from there. It does not matter where we end up from here - there will be a seriously big and shitty price to pay, in many ways, however things now turn out.
ETA I just this minute saw May on TV next to Juncker, saying that basically the UK could unilaterally leave the backstop if there was no sign of a trade agreement in due course. I assume he agreed (or knew) she could/would say that. But his range of expressions and other body language during that short (60 seconds?) speech of hers, was an entire political narrative in its own right. I’ll try to find a link but the BBC may not have it online for a short while and it’s bedtime here. I recommend seeking it out (It was on Newsnight.)
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Yup. The only way that the UK can leave the EU is if Ireland leaves too.
David Cameron: ‘I don’t regret calling referendum’. What an idiot…
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Voting in favour of Brexit or trying to keep the process going instead of trying to end it aren’t isn’t exactly smart decisions, though, are they? Generously assuming that someone supports Brexit for reasons other than xenophobia and bigotry (say, “economic anxiety”) it’s not like they’re going to end up with anything other than austerity by design under a Tory government or austerity by necessity under a Labour government trying to deal with the disastrous aftermath.
Lots of “stupid” to go around in this debacle, across the spectrum from Farage all the way to Corbyn. Stupid, stupid, stupid.
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We’re gonna find out.
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It’s not really a paradox. It’s just three different ways of treating the border, of which two create serious problems out of thin air, and the other is dismissed as incompatible with the referendum result, although that is a dubious Tory political assertion rather than a legal fact.
If you want to be a referendum fundamentalist, then “the will of the people” says we should formally leave the EU (per the 2016 result) but retain a UK/EU customs union (per the more decisive 1975 result). It’s not that much of a brain teaser.
The far right (and therefore the Tory party) just wants to make the rest of Europe, including Ireland, into a foreign country. Which, OK, but that’s probably going to mean violence within the year. And that’s funny, when you consider how those same right-wingers openly sneer at the notion that the EU’s founding purpose is to guarantee peace. I mean, “funny” in the sense that those people are cretinous gobshites.
As for a border in the Irish Sea, the likeliest outcome would be to further disadvantage Northern Ireland economically, which – although I don’t think the Good Friday agreement has anything to say about it – would probably create more sectarian tension than a hard border with Ireland, because it would put everyone in a bad mood while also creating a strong, inflammatory argument for unification.
“Figuring it out” doesn’t enter into it. If the government’s goal was simply to leave the EU – which is all and only what the referendum said – that could be done in a controlled, thought-out way. But given the complexity, it would be a long process, and the biggest changes (like dissolving the customs union and reinstating borders) would not happen at the start.
The problem is, the minority of hard-right politicians who really want Brexit know that, if they don’t get it done before the public realises what destruction they’re willing to incur, it will never happen. So they’re holding the government hostage to ensure the most abrupt, wrenching separation possible, ensuring that it’s irreversible by the time we next get to vote.
It’s hard to overstate the role of plain old incompetence here. The Cameron government was hardly a shining beacon of talent, and they were the Tory “A” team. After their mind-blowingly stupid referendum blew up in their Etonian faces, the poison chalice of executing Brexit was picked up by (generously) their “C” team. And I don’t suppose the high rate of attrition since then has improved the lineup. And thanks to yet another ill-advised election gamble, Theresa May now has a minority government in thrall to a handful of Tory backbench MPs of such a low grade, they couldn’t get jobs even in this cabinet.
Bear in mind, an MP in the UK represents about one-tenth of a US congressional district, and there is essentially no political TV advertising. You can be an extremely unimpressive person and get elected as a member of Parliament, especially in Tory wards where all you need do is persuade a handful of feeble-minded old hags to put you on the ballot. Point being, when you see Jacob Rees-Mogg deciding we’ll jolly well crash out of the EU, I’ve eaten lasagnes that were more qualified to hold forth on that. It’s bad.
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May and her buffoons couldn’t get a manufactured traffic jam to go off as planned:
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It would be nice if I’m still alive after we do. My attempts to leave the country have failed, it looks like I will have to witness it first hand.
ETA: I’m not talking about suicide. Don’t worry about that.
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First Northern Ireland. Second there’s another option. And that’s NI leaving the UK. Its not a particularly popular outcome, even in Ireland. But Reunification neatly obviates the entire issue (even if it wakes a bunch of new ones).
I’m fairly convinced that if Hard Brexit happens, and that border goes back up, that its gonna head that way. Think Scotland’s likely gone one way or the other.
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Please stick around, we need more people like you.
It might get difficult - that means we have to step up.
EDIT: My reply still stands 
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I have systems in place to help with mental illness, but I don’t know what happens if my medication runs out.
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I hear you, but I don’t have an easy answer. But we will find a way. Happy Mutants don’t quit.
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Best Brexit analogy so far - Hugo Rifkind’s “Cheese Submarine”.
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Sounds like a job for Chris Christie.
And that’s not something I find myself thinking or saying very much. At all. Even slightly.
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I know they mean thick as in dim, but I am instantly reminded of the Bristol Stool Chart.
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What of people aging into leavers?
(What an odd sentence out of context.)
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Right now the UK is like a plane full of people who need to make a landing to deal with a technical problem.
About half the population want to land in Brussels, which is the nearest airport. A good chunk more want to land at any airport except Brussels. These two groups might be able to compromise on an airport outside Belgium with convenient access providing they can get the plane down intact.
Unfortunately there is a significant minority who aren’t interested in a safe landing. They just want to ditch in the sea, because Great British maritime heritage and so on. These people will win if they simply wrestle with the pilot until the fuel runs out on the 29th March.
In my personal opinion, a wall in the middle of the Irish sea would be a perfectly acceptable solution to avoid a hard border. There are only about three ports in Northern Ireland where passengers and freight tranship to the UK mainland, if you’ve got to have border controls.
Actually though, I think Brexit will lead fairly quickly to Northern Ireland organising a referendum and leaving the UK to join Eire.
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With a wall in the Irish Sea, we could fit it with tidal turbines and generate loads of electricity… Waddya mean, its a metaphorical wall?!
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