You want to have your cake and eat it too. Either what Leland Melvin said is productive or not, and shrugging off his patriotism because it doesn’t serve your larger argument is intellectually dishonest.
Telling someone they’re a fascist (or helping to serve the aims of fascism) because they love their country accomplishes nothing except ensure they’ll ignore anything else you have to say. This is every bit as counter-productive as trying to shame the shameless.
“The enemy” only hold the strategic ground until it’s taken away from them, and that strategic ground isn’t going to go away, so either we seize it or gripe “well. . . we didn’t need it anyway.” We need all the help we can get.
Today even more NFL players are making Colin Kaepernick-styled protests, including team owners and coaches. Even Bob Kraft (a supposed Trump ally) issued a statement siding with the players over Trump, saying that these players love their communities-- is there a difference between loving your community and loving your country? Should I not love my fellow man because he is “the enemy?” I will do everything I can to reason with those across the aisle, we don’t have to win them all over, just enough to effect change.
I would prefer that America swing slowly back to the left rather than have a violent civil war. You are free to disagree.
Amen Leland Melvin. Americans has always been called the Melting Pot, meaning America is Multi-Cultural. Therefore, all people have value and can make positive contributions despite their Ethnicity. God is Love and not Hate. If you Hate anyone then you do not Love God and hate has No Place in His Heaven. God will not allow Hate to dwell in Heaven. Those who do not like a Diverse American will not like a Diverse Heaven. There is not a Black Heaven, Asian Heaven, Hispanic Heaven, etc. and definitely not a White Heaven. There is just HEAVEN with 12 different Foundations. For Trump, the KKK, Skinheads, and other Hate Groups, keep on Hating. You will make it easy for God. He will just allow you to keep Hating your Way to Hell! I Love America. I have lived in Texas during the Segregation. I fought for equal rights, voting rights, women’s rights, etc., and I will do so again if required. However, Americans need to stand and Demand that we have a President that is “For All of the People,” seek to Unify vs. Divide, set the tone for Love, Peace and Acceptance vs. Hatred, Only the Rich, White Men Only and Women as a Second Class Citizen and represent America with a Positive Image vs. as an Idiot that is the Laughing Stock of the World… As God said, “How can you say you love Me whom you have not seen and Hate your fellow man whom you see every day?” America, Unite!
Don’t get me wrong, I have problems with patriotism, it can be like a drug for some people. But also like a drug it isn’t going to go away. We should try and promote the better aspects of it and be very critical of the bad aspects of it.
Go read Martin Luther King’s “I Have a Dream” speech and tell me that doesn’t have strong thread of patriotism running through it-- he ends the speech by envisioning everyone joining hands and singing “My Country 'tis of Thee” together. Is that a bad thing?
I think it is just like religion or other forms of tribalism. It can be used to unite and uplift, or to tear down and destroy. It depends on who is leading the united masses. Are we digging through the rubble rescuing people, or building walls?
I think it also depends on the national context. Are we talking about a country that’s been stomped on for centuries, like say, Korea, or an imperialist white supremacist warmonger, like say, the U.S.?
So Trump spends this weekend telling the NFL to fire players for kneeling during the anthem…but 4 years ago told then POTUS Obama to stay out of the Washington Redskins naming dispute, not tell the NFL what to do, and focus on important things.
I think you have done a great job in this thread doing just what I wish everyone would do: expand on what they mean when they use the word ‘patriotism’. You seem keenly aware that this is a very subjective term. It makes good conversational sense (and good conversation) to assess each person’s understanding of these black-box words before just tossing them about.
I balk at using the term myself just because of that but I’m still interested in what it means to others.
I rarely hear anyone describe themselves as ‘nationalist’, which seems telling to me.
I have always wondered why the national anthem is even played before sporting wevents. Why do we turn athletic events into a politcal rallies. We’re all Amerikans. Do we need to be reminded before every sporting event? The fervor is almost like Nazi Germany.
Pledge of allegiance before the start of every school day. National anthem before the start of every game. Hell, my labor union has a PoA before every regular monthly meeting.
These rites of acknowledgement to one’s sense of duty and belonging to their country are common to just about every nation-state because they have their proper time and place. Here in the U.S., I feel we’ve gone beyond ‘proper’.
It’s not that this isn’t true, it’s just that progress has always been made with these people kicking, screaming and dragging their heels all the way.
It’s not that I don’t agree with what you said above, it’s that I agree much more strongly with what you said after that
