Trump asks why America should accept immigrants from 'shithole countries,' instead of white ones


#143

Nope, that’s not confined to his supporters. It’s systemic.

In total, 48% of Americans believe the United States is the greatest country in the world

Ever heard of Hubris …


#144

In the interests of accuracy - the United States uses a metric system for money, and does not use any Imperial measures.

As a European, you are not expected to know this, of course. But when you’re dealing with Americans it’s a notable shibboleth, it tells you a lot about a person.


#145

That’s great to see and hear. Durbin has struck me before as relatively decent. Here’s hoping more pols, including republicans, speak up this directly against the racist sexist assholes currently squatting in the White House. And that the corporate media give them air time.


#146

Only those who need to will.


#147

I was thinking of this when I saw the Dan Rather tweet @wanderfound linked. I’m sure many of these journalists are genuinely upset about Trump, but on some level they’ve got to be enjoyed saying “shithole” all day.

I can’t believe that people praised him for that meeting. That thing where he agreed with whatever the last person said and then showed he didn’t even know what they were saying… So I guess he was being praised simply for not saying terrible racist things when the camera was pointed at him?


#148

Super Sayajin


#149

I just wanted to remind people that pretty much every country your ancestors immigrated from was at one time or another considered a “shithole”. That is why they risked everything and came here. And many of our ancestors had to deal with anti-immigrant sentiments as well. The same criticism we hear today, is the same criticism we heard 50, 100, 150, 200 years ago. Heck if you have any Irish in you, they were LITERALLY thought as sub-human animals. A mongrel race. Catholics were going to breed the rest out of existence, and make the US beholden to the Pope.

Many of our ancestors came over when there as no process. They just came over. Many of us claim to promote individual liberty and freedom for all, yet get very “I got mine, fuck you” when it comes to others seeking the same things. Time and again the anti-immigrant rhetoric turned out to be bullshit, as eventually they all integrated into what we have now, both taking in, and adding to the culture of the US.

ETA:

Jefferson said it best (even if he didn’t totally believe it):
“We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal; that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights; that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.”


#150

PS Norwegians are not likely to try to emigrate to the USA:


#151

On the plus side, you can live in an area where the air doesn’t hurt your face.


#152

I agree with almost all of that, but let’s not exaggerate oppression of the Irish in the U.S. At the same time that they were villified in eastern cities (though not nearly as much as black people were), they were joining the white race on the west coast, especially by pushing out Chinese railroad workers.


#153

The actual history and reasons for the poverty is one thing that the right and their apologists are ignoring, the other is this:


The President’s statements are saying that we don’t want people because of where they are from. As if origin determines worth. This is explicit bigotry (and, hence, racism).


#154

Not trying to exaggerate anything. They were seen as dirt. Odds are if you are black and have some white ancestry from after the Civil War, it’s Irish as they were pushed into the same areas and were more likely to co-mingle.

Though no, they still weren’t seen as below black or other races. But they still had a huge level of propaganda against them, probably even more so than what we have now.

Obviously they were able to slowly change their image and become part of the American culture (like so many other immigrant groups), going from a liability to an asset.

But anyway, my point wasn’t to compare the Irish as having it worse than minorities or what have you. It was to remind people that the “shit holes” changed through out history, and any discrimination you harbor in one’s heart was probably also felt about your ancestors. And while today we find Irish heritage “fun” (Kiss me, I’m Irish.) Your ancestors were seen as dirt not that long ago. “But we aren’t dirt…” No, of course not. Neither is anyone else.


#155

Oh, I think Jefferson meant what he said, it’s just that you can’t actually comfortably take historical uses of the word “men” like this one and substitute “humans”. He really meant people who were male, and he didn’t think black people were people at all.

ETA: I’m not at all a scholar of Jefferson, and I don’t claim to know what his real views were. What I know, and we all know, is that somehow out of that statement came a country that only gave white men the right to vote.


#156

Many of us are here (in the United States) because our ancestors were criminals. Myself for instance.


#157

That’s my point that he didn’t totally believe it applied to all of man kind, per se.

Do tell.


#158

I’ll certainly grant that in the U.S., anti-irish propaganda was worse in the 1800s than it is now (given that I can’t think of any anti-irish propaganda being promulgated in the U.S. now…).

FTFY

Let’s not forget that the Irish became not just accepted Americans; as a group, they traded in their class- and oppression-based solidarity with others to join the dominant group in a white supremacist society.

I agree with and appreciate your general point, but if we’re going to cite historical examples, let’s please do so more carefully.


#159

Let’s see…A terrible “healthcare system,” a dysfunctional political process, crumbling infrastructure… If you want Norwegians, I’d say that you were fishing with the wrong bait.


#160

I can agree with that, but don’t think you fixed my point of “(like so many other immigrant groups)”.

While European culture is dominating in America in many ways, non European culture also has been assimilated. Fair to say not to the same degree, but it is there. It helps if you can link drinking to it. For gods sake, we got people buying shit for Cinco De Mayo parties and is probably the most blatant thing I can think of.


#161

I would argue that most Cinco de Mayo celebrations are barely a step removed from blackface minstreling. Less an illustration that we’ve integrated or assimilated Mexican culture and more a demonstration of the fact that we’re really shit at treating non-white culture respectably.


#162

Okay. I didn’t see that that was your point (given that I read what you wrote, instead of whatever you meant).

And, what @alahmnat said.