Trump lawyers are exploring his pardoning powers, and how to monkeywrench Mueller's Russia investigation

The GOP base do not give a flying fuck about collusion with Russia. They recognise the Putin regime as fellow-traveller white supremacist Christian fascists.

The GOP legislature have been completely aware of Trump’s Russian puppet-tude since at least early in the primary.

What will it take for Americans to react? Do they have to march to the White House waving swastika flags and shouting “no, it’s not a joke, we really mean it”?

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And have a really nice weekend. :tropical_drink:

Depressingly accurate.

We call those parrot pliers.

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“So, can I pardon myself?”
“Pardon me?”
“No, pardon ME!”
“Uh, pardon me Mr. President but…”
“Well I can pardon you too sure, I’m the fucking PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA!!! But I’m asking about ME.”
“I beg your pardon Mr. President…”
“You don’t have to beg. I’ll pardon you. What the fuck did you do anyways that you’re so worried about? Bet it isn’t as bad as me. I’ve done some PRETTY BAD SHIT, heh. And now I’m the MOTHERFUCKING PRESIDENT!!!”
“Well, there isn’t really any precedent…”
“What do you mean there isn’t any President? I just told you I’M the motherfucking President!!!”


Given the blue color and in the US, those are probably Channellock pliers.

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I’m on the vacation- couldn’t be better!


There is only one grounds for impeachment - that a majority of house members and two thirds of senators think they are more likely to get re-elected if they do impeach than if they don’t. That’s a little overly cynical - some elected representatives take their duties seriously. But there are enough pure opportunists that without them there’s no way to get an impeachment done. So that’s the threshold we are waiting for. And I think if Trump pardons Kushner saying he’s only doing it because of the “witch hunt” against Kushner, that wouldn’t damage him enough to change the electability calculation.


Grounds? Sure, probably. But Congress has to vote to impeach, and the Senate has to convict to remove him from office. Both houses are controlled by the Republicans, and right now Republican voters are not forcing their hands. So (from an appropriately cynical perspective) why should they?

General question - what, if any, limits on presidential pardons are there, that courts have tested and enforced in the past? They’re limited to federal crimes, yes. But do they have to mention specific people, or specific crimes/charges? Or could a president so inclined sign a piece of paper saying the equivalent of, “I hereby pardon all Americans for all crimes committed on our before today, July 21, 2017”?

Not USian, not human. Who cares about the Untermenschen?

Not the USian voter, that’s for sure. Bushs re-election is proof enough.

Am I wrong or wasn’t it Trump who appointed Mueller? And now he’s complaining about conflicts of interest?

You are wrong. Mueller was appointed by Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein, largely in response to allegations that Rosenstein supposedly gave Trump the excuse he asked for to fire Comey (though Trump has said he was going to fire Comey anyway, and even gave the Russia investigation as the reason, because Trump is his own worst enemy).

Mueller has widely been regarded on both sides of the isle as a fairly impartial choice. Technically Trump could have him fired, though he’d have to keeping firing senior Justice Department officials until he got to someone who would do it for him, and Rosenstein has stated he will not. Anyone who does do it for him is opening themselves to investigation, so better to be fired. I suppose Trump could promise to pardon them after the fact, but would you want to depend on him getting that right? Trump has all of Nixon’s crookedness and none of his brains.

If Turmp did manage to have Rosenstein fired, Congress would have to do some serious 'splaining why they wouldn’t simply reappoint him, as it’s within their power. At that point Trump would be opening himself wide for obstruction charges as none of the bullshit excuses he gave for firing Comey would be applicable.


Trump should just cut to the chase and pronounce himself Dictator.

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Thanks for explaining that to me! I wasn’t sure how that worked

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It seems that pardons need to be accepted. That is the admission of guilt. It’s not clear to me how this works if it is “all crimes”.

Actually that would be excellent.

A dictator in the Roman Republic was obliged to resign after six month.

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And they always complied with that requirement!