Even if that had any relevance to the topic, it’s wrong. Approximately 60% of eligible voters turned out to vote in 2016. Mr. Trump got less than half of those who voted for president. So fewer than 30% of eligible voters voted for him.
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What would you say of a private citizen who didn’t want to serve fascists in their bar in 1930s Spain or Italy or Germany? Or a 1930s Mississippi bartender who refused to serve Klansmen? Both movements had at least as much popular support as Trump in their heyday, and there were plenty of individuals associated with those movements who weren’t especially racist by the standards of their contemporaries. (“I don’t really care about the race stuff, I just want the trains to run on time.”)
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He didn’t tell you that you need a brain. He used needing a brain as an example. He should have said, “one needs a brain, too”.
But perhaps you would have taken offense to that, as well. You see determined to take offense.
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I think maybe this is getting to hypothetical or there is too much generalization from the ruling. The court confirmed that there is no law that prevents a business from discriminating against people with certain political beliefs. However, that doesn’t mean that a different set of facts would create the same result.
I don’t think we can ignore that the alleged incident (it seems like maybe it didn’t even happen since he was served) involved someone being kicked out of a bar for their political expression within that bar not for their privately held beliefs. We could go deep into hypotheticals but we don’t really know what the same judge would have said if things had been different.
We have to look at the actual harm caused to the actual person and how that fits into a broader pattern in society. If people start doing detective work to figure out who voted for Trump, publishing lists, and those lists become blacklists of all drinking and eating establishments, then I’d definitely feel those people were being treated unfairly. But nothing even remotely like that is happening. Basically, the consequences to this guy were not enough to shock the conscience of the judge and cause them to reconsider a letter-of-the-law approach.
And since I missed this:
[In reference to my cutting tomatoes analogy] My point is that the reason why cutting people is wrong and cutting tomatoes isn’t wrong isn’t that we have different ideologies. If you hold the view that cutting people is wrong and I hold the view that it is right, then you are right and I am wrong. Your view isn’t about how you feel about people and how you feel about tomatoes (well, it could be, but it doesn’t have to be). It also isn’t the popularity contest you propose when you say:
When people saying that Trump’s ideology is harmful they aren’t merely coming at this from one opinion which is as good as the next opinion, and you can’t just play turnabout by substituting one ideology for another. There are actual reasons why people find Trump’s ideology harmful that could be discussed outside the context of the current American civil cold war.
None of us can know for certain that we are right, but I don’t think it makes sense to therefore conclude that we ought not think anyone is right.
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And when you throw in the electoral college, it gets more complicated.
The fact is, Trump lost the popular vote. But the extra weight given to less populous areas and the use of heavy gerrymandering gave him the presidency. So, less than 30% of the country thought Trump was a good idea. Sadly, (and scarily), that was enough.
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And more than half of that 30% weren’t really voting for Trump but were voting against Clinton. People who went to the polls actually thinking, “Trump is going to be a good president” might have been in the 12-15% of voting age Americans range.
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And it seems like he was kicked out for his behavior, too. But I don’t think that plays into the white christian male narrative of victimhood here, so it’s going to be ignored. Sad really, because more restaurants should kick out people who treat the staff like their servants instead of human beings providing a service…
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But that’s not why he was kicked out… he was kicked out for being a dick to the staff.
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I think protecting the staff from customers who mistreat them is helping one’s business, not hurting it. That once again, is why he got kicked out, according to the management of the restaurant.
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So, head over to my Instagram (link is in my profile popup) and peruse the photos. 99% of the food you see is stuff I cook at home (i do albeit rarely take a pic of my food when dining out). Most folks ask me over and over again “Why aren’t you working as a chef somewhere?! When are you going to open a restaurant?!?”
My answer is always NOPE. Not gonna happen. Because I cannot stand how most people treat the staff at a restaurant. And how they disregard the effort and skill it takes to make the food they consume. I’d be kicking people out every single night.
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Yeah, I see it so much when I go out to eat. We always tip well, and try everything we can to make the staff’s life just a bit easier. I’ve done that work, and it sucks to be talked down to. I’m happy to see any restaurant that has the staff’s back.
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First, I’m not here to negate your point. I’m simply saying that there is little evidence of reasoned argument stopping unreasonable people from visiting violence upon the innocent. However, there are litteral tons of evidence that shooting and bombing stopped the Nazis.
That they are resurging may have more to do with people moving towards tolerance of all ideologies no matter how toxic and the insistence on having reasonable discourse with unreasonable people rather than an indication that intolerance of toxic ideology doesn’t work. Certainly we can say that after decades of society discussing race problems, the problem has not gone away.
No. What I’m saying is that no amount of reasoned discussion would have protected the Little Rock Nine
https://www.nps.gov/nr/travel/civilrights/buildings/litlrck2.JPG
Perhaps not, but you can kill the Nazi who gasses people and the KKK member who hangs people ending any possibility of them recommitting those crimes against humanity.
Agreed. But consider this; no one is entitled to have their opinion herd and no one is entitled to have their opinion agreed with. No one is entitled to have their opinion protected and no one is entitled their opinion being tolerated.
A bit of a red herring don’t you think? If I voted Hitler in power because I liked small mustachioed men and I supported him during his genocidal rampage because of my like of small mustachioed men, am I to be excused? I think not. No matter the reason a person may have for casting a vote for him, once he started enacting religion based tests for entry in to the U.S. and installing people to run our public institutions with the intent of destroying them, the environment, and our protections, those reasons become moot. Continued support of Trump after we see what he is actually doing can’t be excused by saying “Yeah, but I voted for him because of X.” The initial reason may be valid but continued support of him exposes the supporter of Trump as a supporter of racism, misogyny, bigotry, xenophobia, the gaslighting of a nation, and the list goes on.
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I think by ‘it’ you meant ‘he’. And misspelled cult.
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At least they and the Communists can agree on something.
Gerrymandering didn’t contribute (in any direct way) to Trump’s Electoral College win. You win (or lose) all of a state’s electoral votes based on total statewide votes cast, which has nothing to do with how the state’s Congressional districts are set up.
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They still can’t be kicked in bars.
Exactly. If one cannot understand how it is that many are indeed Trump supporters, after having it analysed, dissected and explained so many times, by so many people, in so many ways, then some inherent processing deficiency might be diagnosable. Sadly, there seems to be rather less review and understanding of why many cannot/will not support political candidates with less extreme views/behaviour and perhaps more (not saying much!) of their voters’ interests closer to heart.
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Kind of silly though, Soup Nazis having to kick out MAGA Nazis.
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Relevant:
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