I think this is important.
But I think the real work is on those who won’t listen to facts in the first place.
I want us as a nation to value what is actually true. We do not, clearly. How do we fix that?
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Where is the lounge for people that spend all day here but never earn the Regular title?
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WSJ Commentary Section != News
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Go read any of the archives of Civil War letters to get a sense of how literate the average person was 150 years ago (despite having significantly less formal schooling).
A majority of people in this country believe that biological evolution is a lie and that instead their god made the Earth with all flora and fauna (including humans) on it all at once.
I have. Every day, and not one of them has ever helped me. Why do you assume someone like that is somehow a person of integrity, despite how they talk about other people?
That’s a dogwhistle, right? What is it you’re trying to imply: wealth, sophistication, or both?
My guess is that the woman in the video wouldn’t recognize the reference. Which makes me wonder: do YOU have one of those chairs? Is that why you knew about them?
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It is more complicated, of course, but to claim that a lack of quality education isn’t a major factor that produces people like those in the video is absurd. It’s even more absurd when you then turn around and instead blame it all on the single factor of a lack of empathy toward those with different political views resulting in hurt feelings.
I did listen to that episode of TAL. They’ve also done episodes on our broken K-12 public education system.
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Yes there is. From what I understand, it’s “/s”.
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I really didn’t want to listen to that, but I felt I had to.
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Does this characterize everyone who voted for Trump? I mean, are they all racists, xenophobes or stupid? Because we don’t agree with their views?
And I say this as a centre left liberal who didn’t want him to win. Also I’m not an American, but I’m trying to figure out what’s going on. So while those folks (or mostly that lady) are ill informed, maybe there are other reasons that a lot of people voted for him. Such as they’re ticked off about Wall Street getting bailed out while the recovery passed by and their jobs are still moving south or offshore. And they hear daily about robotization taking their jobs but they sure as hell aren’t going to benefit since all the patents are owned by Wall St. guys.
I think there is a visceral dislike of Wall St. by both sides. Here’s an interesting stat in 2015 Wall St bonuses (excluding salaries) were $28.4 billion vs all the minimum wage earners in the US $14billion. So, the optics can’t be good for Hillary when she refused to release transcripts of Goldman Sachs speeches she did for $200 grand a pop, and talking about a private vs public position.
So while there’s this conspiracy on one side that illegal immigrants voted, we also hear that voting machines may have been hacked thereby costing the election.
Here you have this “Trump Voter” headline and it is an obvious poke at them: as all Trump voters are stupid, or racists etc. and it shuts down any discourse.
There were a lot of people in those rallies, and a lot of people did vote for Trump, and unfortunately the discourse has become so extreme that one side is either tarred as racist or xenophobic and something else from the right faction. Except it is not just a US phenomenon. I think political economist Mark Blyth discusses this quite thoughtfully in his talk on Global Trumpism.
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You know, if you’re gonna read the news, but discount anything you disagree with as “propaganda and lies” then why even pay attention to the news at all, just make it all up in your head exactly the way you want it to be. Think of the time you’ll save.
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I’ve lived on both sides of the political divide, and during my high school years I would have agreed with her on this point. I felt then that ignoring problems, such as racism, was often the best solution and people like Jesse Jackson were just trouble makers.
Learning through life experiences I grew out of such a mind-set. I wonder what is her excuse?
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Nice, now I’ve got a third book in my queue!
Exactly right.
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The idea that immigrants would risk exposure and expulsion in order to try to add a single vote to a system that is too large for their individual vote to sway the election is ridiculous on its face.
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It would be easier to take these concerns about voter fraud more seriously if those who espouse them were equally concerned about the actual fact of voter repression efforts. If they are concerned about the integrity of the system, shouldn’t they be making equal efforts to insure that ALL eligible voters were welcomed to the booth?
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Nearly every demonstrable case of actual voter fraud that I have seen reported has come from the right, not from the left. A current case in Michigan is in the news now.
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Not everyone who voted for him was a racist, a xenophobe or stupid, of course. But if someone happened to be a racist, a xenophobe, or stupid than chances are good they cast their vote for the Annoying Orange.
The question I’m interested in is why the mainstream media, bending over backwards to represent both sides of an issue, has yet to put on a representative voter or supporter of this mega-grifter who doesn’t come off like a complete clown, if not worse. Instead we get, well, racists, xenophobes and stupid people who can’t articulate the core malaise you describe.
You’re in for a treat. On top of the book’s content, Charlie Pierce is a talented and funny writer (he was originally a sports reporter). You can get a taste of his writing at esquire.com where he’s a columnist.
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He knows full well what an Op-ed is, he doesn’t care.
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I’m not saying a lack of empathy to individuals is the problem (although on a personal level it’s a great thing), I’m saying that if the left doesn’t start listening outside of their bubble, they are going to be fucked for a long time. Go ahead and look for easy answers. They aren’t hard to come up with because there are a thousand of them. Trump stitched together a coalition of people often outside of the mainstream. Many of them are people that rely on government assistance and maybe that’s why they hate the government so much.
If you want to see the public education system attacked and destroyed, talk about how important it is. Make it a key Democrat issue. The bigger you make that issue, the easier it is to be targeted and destroyed because in this political climate winning isn’t as important as making sure the other side loses.
You listened to that TAL episode so I want to ask you - what did you think about the part where they talked about some parts of the country being under Sharia Law. Totally absurd, right? The guy who was talking about it knew damned well that it wasn’t true, but it didn’t matter. I bet if you argued with the guy, he would eventually admit that Michigan is still relying on the constitution, but at the same time you would strengthen h is conviction. It’s counterproductive to make that argument.
Thread about Trump voters (with specific reference to the Carrier deal):
https://twitter.com/anamariecox/timelines/804421893935595520
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So, your argument is that liberals have to listen to these people who are being reactionary - if not intentionally contrarian - toward anything they perceive as liberal, to the point that they will destroy the public education system if liberals make an argument to improve it, and trying to divest them of their misinformed beliefs through reasoned debate and education is irrational and pointless.
What, exactly, is all of this “listening” supposed to do for us, then?
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Could be. That’s what we’re always being told. But that means they were satisfied voting purely out of spite. They have to know Trump can’t or won’t do the things he promised. They have to know Trump is not one of them—indeed, that he’s made a career out of screwing people like them. (What kind of people vote for a billionaire because they’re mad at Wall Street?)
So we’ve got three groups:
- Trump voters who agreed with all the racism and sexism and xenophobia
- Trump voters who believed anybody would be better than Hillary Clinton (see 1.)
- Trump voters who didn’t care for the racism, sexism, and xenophobia but wanted to “send a message”
Are there other Trump voters?
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I’ve seen plenty of articles and discussion from “the left” (especially those bad ol’ Aeron-chair-sitting Coastal Elites) discussing the very real toll that neoliberal globalism has taken on those individuals, resigning them to living on the dole and injuring their pride (not necessarily the white variety) in the process. They’re able to see outside the bubble of their own affluence, comfort and security in part because they received proper educations.
If you don’t think education has been a key issue of the Democratic party you haven’t been paying attention. They’re in a constant battle against GOP politicians who want to de-fund local school districts, who want to eliminate the Dept of Education, and who think schools should be run as businesses (the kinds where those who benefit most are highly paid executives).
In the case of anyone arguing that some parts of the country are under Sharia, of course it’s absurd because it’s not grounded in reality. That’s kind of perception regularly emerges from products of an education system that you characterise as one of the best ever. And if it becomes clear that he’s trolling by arguing a point that he knows isn’t true, mockery of his stated position is all he deserves.
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Sure, we’re all guilty of it. It only takes a second to step back and try to put yourself into their shoes, though. And maybe our political discourse wouldn’t be nearly as horrible if we ALL did that. The media doesn’t help, of course.
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