Yeah that’s my point. Without fixing the detention itself it’s hollow change, And I wouldn’t buy it as they’re intent at all. Given that they’re making so effort to fix any of that.
But generally speaking. Keeping kids out of these detention camps is, kinda, a good thing. Just like we don’t generally send kids into prison for the sake of keeping families together.
How about respecting basic human values and not treating parents or children like cattle or worse.
I’d like to think that the dude would not abide* this turn of events.
*My grasp of TBLebowski is admittedly incomplete.
How could someone with even a spark of humanity in them look at children and be willing to inflict such damage and pain? Having friends and family in Latin America I’ve had the pleasure of seeing their human connections. Having been taken into such a family as an elder washed in the love and respect that is so freely offered I can’t imagine anyone intentionally destroying that bond. That destructive mindset is apparent in ISIS…we have declared ourselves to the cause of destroying those people who represent ISIS and it’s goals… and yet we are willing to rip families asunder because they dream of a better life for their children. For love of their children they suffer great hardships and brutal work. For having such love for their children there are people who want to utterly destroy them. So I gladly stand with bleeding heart liberals, snowflakes, or any other pejorative name and god damn you for even thinking about harming people whose sin is the love of their children and their willingness to work.
Are you serious? Did you not catch me agreeing with that?
But which is worse? Mom and child go to the evil hell whole together? Or mom goes to the evil hell hole and the child is spared that.
Well yeah I was serious just from the stand point that a lot of kids would choose to be in a hellhole to be with their parents. In some countries the kids/spouses are allowed to be in the prison in order to maintain the family connection.
I wasn’t trying to give you grief. My feelings are more based on how damning and degrading the prison systems are for the people placed there. With that said some cultures so value the bond of family that separation is worse than the miserable conditions of the prison. That’s all I meant
I get that. But not doing that under this specific context has been proposed as a reform. And we’ve been criticized heavily internationally for sending kids to these places. Particularly because the kids don’t always stay with their family even if sent to detention. They might get sent to a slightly different part of the hole. Though that might be specific to people caught crossing the border.
But treatment of children in detention has been enough of a sore point that I’d be surprised if this wasn’t as much about dodging criticism from the left as it is splitting families out of spite.
Even given all that it still might be the kinder thing. I’d prefer to get the whole detention camp issue solved. Or not send anyone to places like that. But under the circumstances that’s not going to happen. And given reports I’ve read I do not like the idea of children being there under any circumstances.
“Part of the reason for the proposal is to deter mothers from migrating to the United States with their children, said the officials, who have been briefed on the proposal.”
So, the goal is to frighten away refugees from poverty, corrupt governments and drug cartels by threatening to take their children away?
"The journey north is a dangerous one with too many situations where children - brought by parents, relatives or smugglers - are often exploited, abused or may even lose their lives.
So, our fundamentally racist immigration policy and militarization of the border is being exploited by criminals and rather than change that policy we just double-down on human misery?
“With safety in mind, the Department of Homeland Security continually explores options that may discourage those from even beginning the journey,”
So, the goal being to make the United States to look as corrupt, repressive and unjust as the country they are feeling from?
The whole “Won’t someone think of the children?!?” cover this proposal hides behind is only to make more palatable a mean-spirited and vindictive proposal that is founded on a series false assumptions and false choices.
One, that the Trump/Bannon nationalist ideology of “blood and soil” which is at the root of the anti-immigrant push in this country has any moral foundation at all. Remember, we are talking about regions of this country that were seized as a result of invasion and granted in a treaty (Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo) signed under duress – a moot point to be sure at this point in history but it should inspire some humility about how we react when Mexicans decide to cross the border.
Two, that these people are threats that need to be rounded up, detained and deported is founded on lies about the criminality of these refugees who are in the vast majority entrepreneurial, hard-working, devout Catholics who are willing to do the nasty jobs no one else wants.
Three, that rather than improve the condition of detention centers to make them more hospitable for families, those families should be broken up.
Four, that a parent who seeks to remove their family from miserable conditions is judged as unfit when throughout history we have applauded people who have tried to flee with their families from dictators (Hey! The Sound of Music! Julie Andrews!)
Five, that separating a child from a parent is for the child’s own good when in reality such actions are only taken in the most extreme cases, not in this case where the crime is the moral equivalent of jaywalking to avoid a building on fire.
Six, the US government can make a decent policy around this when it has a pretty bad record of taking children away from minority groups as a whole and should be avoided at all costs: (http://www.nmai.si.edu/education/codetalkers/html/chapter3.html).
Seven, etc, etc, etc…
That’s next year’s program. It took the Nazis nearly ten years to shift the Overton Window to the Final Solution, don’t forget.
The forced “re-education” of LGBT people, which was often fatal, started only two years after the Nazis got into power.
Nah that’s been bubbling under the surface for a while. Hell of a lot of anti-immigrant sentiment during the Tea-Party Wave. Even as G-Dubs and other “establishment” republicans tried (half assedly) for bi-partisan immigration reform built around a pathway to citizenship other factions in the GOP were raging against them. This comes from 2004. I remember regular news coverage of full on Swat style immigration raids regularly on the TV as a child (late 80’s through mid 90’s). That whole “southern strategy thing” and GOP dog whistle racism was often very anti-immigrant.
Trump and Bannon are the product of a long burning fuse in American Conservativism. And they opportunistically glommed onto it, elevated it, validated it and road it to power. They didn’t create it, and they aren’t driving it. They’re using it, and they believe it though.
The mindset of making something so horrible that people will stop doing it works so well. During Prohibition, the government actually put poison in quite a lot of hooch and then set it loose on the black market. You know how well that worked out.
Imagine a boot, grinding your face into the pavement, forever!
A boot made with baby skin leather, grinding your babies into hamburger, forever.
“Are there no prisons?” asked Scrooge.
“Plenty of prisons,” said the gentleman, laying down the pen again.
Don’t worry, he’ll find a way to profit from this. New Mar-a-Lago menu item: Tears of Brown Children: $100 glass
I believe the Dude’s proper response would be, “Fuckin’ fascist!”
OHHHHHHHH!!! I thought that car was full of Sheriffs.
continues wailing/rending of garments
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