Trump will never, ever be impeached and removed from office

Which means he’s down overall. Look at the trend line since his election. Not the day to day swings back and forth.

Trump started far lower.

Remember that this guy lost the popular vote by the largest margin ever for a president that still took the electoral college. And he squeaked out a win by one of the lowest EC margins ever. Record low attendance for the inauguration of a new president. While sparking the largest single protest in American history.

His support was never particularly large, and quite clearly didn’t amount to a majority of Americans. It doesn’t take that much of a dip in approval or support numbers to mean his chances at re-election are minimal.

So much of the news coverage and discussion of the subject (including here, look up thread) has treated it as if his support was massive. As if a majority of Americans, especially in red states. Are 100% behind the guy. And there’s almost nothing out there to back that up. Even at his highest approval ratings, dude has one of the lowest approval ratings since we’ve started tracking it (for the given period in a presidency). This is not an insurmountable lead. And it in no way looks like a starting point for a persistent shift in American politics, a red “wave” or even a clear shot at re-election.

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He was elected at 35% and hasn’t dropped below 35% at any point after his inauguration. A small drop after the inaugural period isn’t a loss of support, it is just the basics of reality. His support isn’t large, but his base votes at high rates. I’m not saying it looks like some kind of red wave just that nothing in the polling data indicates he will perform notably worse than he did in 2016. So unless the Dems have a candidate who can perform a few % better than Clinton did in the states that actually swing, he’s still viable. The protests give me more hope than the polls do because they actually show something different about now than we saw in 2016.

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He started from a ridiculous low point. Quickly peaked and over time its generally trended down from that peak. Disapproval numbers have an even clearer rise over the same time frame.

Its slight but its there. As it is in most metrics I’ve seen. Perhaps more importantly his approval numbers have never come close to his actual margin in the election. Which could very well indicate that a good portion of people who voted for him didn’t actually like him all that much at the time, or rapidly changed their minds about him. But approval numbers aren’t a poll per se and aren’t tied to elections. These things aren’t predictive, and we’re more than 2 years away from the actual campaign.

So the bigger thing is probably what these numbers don’t show. An increase or improvement for Trump. Which is key because:

Trump could perform exactly as well as he did in 2016. And he’d likely lose. (likely not definitely). Divorced from geography and realities of the Electoral College, Trump’s actual performance in the actual election looks like a loss. Pretty much any other election, any other year. And it would have been one. Any, even slight, change in the terms and that performance becomes a loss. A difference in where those votes come from. An opponent whose campaign doesn’t repeatedly fuck up. A more critical, less horse race news media. A slight uptick in voter turn out from the other side’s demographics.

When your margin of victory is a rounding error. A few hundred thousand votes. In a handful of tiny congressional districts. In just 3 states. Whole number drops in support mean you’ve entered losing territory. Even small drops. Larger shifts could very well make it impossible for him to get a second term. The way I see it Trump can’t simply maintain. To retain power he needs to increase his level of support. And we’re quite clearly no seeing that, if nothing else.

Now I’m not trying to make a prediction. I’m not saying he can’t or won’t win. What numbers there are to look at are too disconnected in both time and subject matter from anything solid like an election. Overall trends in them are slight, and vague. And a hell of a lot can change in two years.

But like I said there seems to be an overall assumption. In the news, among politicians, and just in the general discussion over Trump. That his support is larger, deeper, and broader than it really is. That it will be difficult to overcome. And not just on the subject of his eventual re-election. Its in the incredibly narrow focus on the handful of white working class voters that flipped red to give him the win. Even as his voters over all are wealthier, and less working class than both the general population and Clinton’s voters.

Frankly Trump is in a pretty precarious position over all. His peak performance is the wrong side of plurality. He doesn’t have the enthusiastic support of his own party. He doesn’t have broad support for his agenda, in government or among the population. His party has a different agenda from his administration. And their openly stated, calculated reason for supporting him is to get that agenda through not the Trump agenda. And he hasn’t been particularly good at doing that for them.

Hell there’s been rumors about a primary challenge against him since before he was sworn in. Including rumors about his own VP doing so.

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Are you including the effect of the substantially intensified voter suppression in that calculation? All the red states have been pushing anti-voter laws at an accelerated rate ever since Trump was elected (and it was already pretty intense before that).

BTW, this is rather interesting:

The problem with their proposed solutions is that there is no way to get them implemented in a GOP-controlled state. Voter suppression didn’t happen by mistake.

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2016 probably saw more voter suppression than any previous election. And Trump won with 3% less of the vote than Hillary got. Voter suppression is real, and its very concerning. But even now the skew from that and gerrymandering. While unprecedented in scale, is pretty slight. Say a couple hundred thousand votes in a few key Congressional districts slight.

That along with turn out problems on the Dem’s side were arguably a much bigger factor in Trump winning than those few voters who shifted his way that we keep hearing about. Part of what annoys me about this angle of the discussion. Some pretty important shit is getting ignored to present the idea that Trump is more embedded in power than he is.

But even with all that going on in the election that put him in office. Trump’s numbers still look like they do.

Meanwhile. Even as the GOP is renewing its push for voter suppression, ever more extreme gerrymanders, and the straight up fucking crazy shit like we’re seeing in North Carolina. The courts have turned out to be notably unfriendly to almost all of it. Especially higher up the ladder in federal circuit courts and state supreme courts. Even among conservative and GOP appointed judges.

Part of why their so obsessed with packing the bench right now. G-Dubs packed the fuck out of the federal bench. And they obstructed the hell out of Obama’s appointments. And they still need a far more extreme, partisan, and loyal judiciary than we currently have to keep what they’ve got.

So yeah its a factor. But I do not see it as the sort of factor that makes Trumps re-election a forgone conclusion. Particularly since we’re already seeing increased turn out from the left overcome a whole hell of a lot in those special elections. I think its important to keep stressing just how feasible it is to beat these guys, or remove Trump. So that keeps happening.

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USS Trumpy McTrumpface?

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Simple solution: Vote the GOP out of power, making them as impotent as they were in post-WWII period, preferably even weaker.
And Donald can’t be impeached. Everyone knows it.

Using this

Trumps average approval rating has never been above 50%. The less important disapproval rating hasn’t been below 50% in over a year. The margin of error hasn’t crossed over in over a year. Compared to all the presidents in the last 70 years, Trump has the worst long term approval rating by far.

If Democrats choose the right candidate and don’t give up then Trump stands little chance. If they go with someone who is perceived to have similar problems as Hillary then it will be a far harder fight but not impossible (it doesn’t matter if the problems are completely fake like with some of Hillary’s, they just need to have been there for a long time).

If too many people give in to defeatism, then Trump will get a second term. Let’s not let that happen. The same principle applies for this November’s elections.

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And importantly his approval rating has always been well below the rule of thumb level for likely re-election.

But caveat there. Non-predictive, too far out, and very small sample size. But you can roughly say that at no point have Trumps polling numbers, hell even his actual percentage in the election, looked like a guy who’s cruising to a second term. His high point is in the range of other president’s basements.

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I question if a USSS agent is willing to take a bullet for a man who defames independent federal law enforcement agencies. I’m sure it’s fun for them to beat up journalists and leftists but the Secret Service also does actual investigation work, not just body-guarding.

Some of them might balk, sure, but isn’t that isn’t that its own form of crisis some agents are following orders and some are refusing? That’s some scary shit.

I suppose but agents take their marching orders from the director of the Secret Service, not the President. Any agent willing to disregard the law - specifically, not allowing another law enforcement officer to conduct his lawful duties - is, at best, throwing away his career as no other agent will ever work with someone who doesn’t respect the chain of command and the law. At worst, said agent is also arrested as a criminal.

If I worked for the Secret Service, I’d be more concerned with staying employed and keeping a clean record. Politicians are temporary but career civil servants can have lifetime employment.

Every day is new historical territory with this presidency but the whole checks-and-balances thing keeps Trump’s most fascistic impulses cornered. He can’t even get his centerpiece campaign promise, a wall with Mexico, funded.

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I agree with your position. Remember also that the special elections in the past year have gone against Trump’s candidates, sometimes remarkably so. I see no reason why that would change.

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