What are the chances of America being saved from fascism by a constitutional monarchy? Or fascist handing power over to a constitutional monarchy.
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Yes. I appreciate that someone is bringing nuance to this discussion.
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So if I understand correctly, at least 50% of you commentators, condone physically harming somebody because of their political standpoint, isolated from their actual actions? (I’m not referring directly to this case, where there is at least a physical provocation before the excessive response) That’s messed up, that’s something the Nazi’s institutionalized.
Yes, you’re correct. According to roughly half of the people here, physically assaulting people is not okay but it’s totally okay to punch a Nazi because reasons.
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The idea and facilitation of genocide isn’t a political standpoint, and I really wish some people would quit trying to minimalize what Nazis are and what they do.
My stance is and has always been this:
When a group starts out by declaring that everyone who isn’t like them isn’t deserving of the same rights and don’t even qualify as human beings… that it’s ‘okay’ to exploit others, cage them, torture them, and kill them with extreme prejudice, then they’ve gone and started some serious shit with the entirety of the rest of the human race, and it won’t end well.
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You know, I won’t claim to be an expert in this field, but I know a bunch of German people who live with their history every day. All of them agree that Nazism was some horrible shit, and almost all agree not to punch Nazis today, because they saw where that sort of black and white thinking brought them in the past. They outlaw it though.
I’d also like you to note that when we started to use violence back then, it wasn’t towards individual civilians with messed up ideas, it was an act of war towards a regime and it’s army and infrastructure. There were trials, not vigilantism against the civilians who acted wrongly, and they were judged per their actions, not per their ideas, as far as I know.
I am not trying to minimize fuck-all here, I am worried that you are caught up in a discourse that hide the option that you might be on the path to totalitarianism in your own behavior.
Nazism isn’t unique in being evil, and it shouldn’t be treated different than other brain-dead ideologies of blame.
Right now you are treating basically powerless individuals identifying with a past regime, as if they are in power. The only thing you accomplish this way is to make them believe they are something special.
Honestly as an European, I am disgusted with you cavalier attitude to problems to which you were never really the victim.
A legislative proposal or executive order that explicitly banned non-artistic use of Nazi symbolism would not go well here in the U.S. because the First Amendment is widely viewed by the populace as protective of almost all speech. To me, this fact strains the comparison between U.S. and Germany.
If you were directing this particular statement towards @Melz2, well…um, best of luck with that.
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And this was one of the milder pictures among many I could have chosen.
I’m rather disgusted with your attitude as well.
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Then don’t. Skip the anecdotes and false equivalencies.
Don’t say ‘we’ unless you are a survivor who actually lived back during WWII and the Holocaust.
Then don’t. It’s really that easy.
Sounds like concern driving trollies; save your energy.
Irrelevant. Evil must be resisted and fought against whenever it rears its ugly head.
Miss me with that fallacious bullshit; with their boy in the White House, stacking the deck in the courts and Congress, bigots and fascists sure as fuck are not “powerless.”
Newsflash; you don’t pay my bills sign my paycheck or bring any joy to my life, so I don’t give a happy fuck how you “feel.”
Don’t start no shit wont be shit, but whoever wants some beef then bring the ruckus, see what happens.
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this really goes back to how much credence you give to karl popper’s paradox of tolerance. under the present circumstances in the context of the not-so-distant past this quote gives me a great deal of pause and worry about my own belief in non-violent methods of resistance–
“We should therefore claim, in the name of tolerance, the right not to tolerate the intolerant. We should claim that any movement preaching intolerance places itself outside the law, and we should consider incitement to intolerance and persecution as criminal, in the same way as we should consider incitement to murder, or to kidnapping, or to the revival of the slave trade, as criminal.”
i would regard self-proclaimed nazis as being part of a general incitement to intolerance and persecution.
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I’ve been attacked by fascists. That day I learned that they won’t just leave me alone if I ignored them, or just shout abuse at me. I had no intention of getting into a fight the day that I got hit with an Iron bar, not even a few seconds before it happened. It didn’t stop anything.
I say never again. I don’t care if someone who wasn’t there or close enough to see what happened gets upset, my life takes priority. I don’t care if people think I threw the first punch if I think that I’ll get attacked. All it takes is one punch from someone who doesn’t believe in my right to life to fuck up or end it.
I never intend to start a fight, but if one looks inevitable then I will make sure that I finish it. At this point pacifism will get some of us put in the hospital or the morgue just for existing. No thanks. The only reason the fascists want peace is so that they can not be disturbed while they wipe out people like me just because I was born the way I was.
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Fuckin’ A;
I don’t know what is so damn hard to understand about this.
If the people who hate us would just leave us the fuck alone, we’d do the same; but they don’t, so we can’t.
My willingness to physically defend myself and those I care for from needless harm at the hands of others doesn’t make me a totalitarian, it makes me NOT a fuckin’ doormat.
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These kind of conversations are always… hard to listen to.
inteview with the armband:
(45:40 for the intro, 46:20 for the content)
His closing comment:
The left has made it so that there’s no distinction between actual fascism and sort of a conservative point of view, and I think that’s what’s dangerous for society…
I sort of doubt this adds anything to the discussion, but it seemed on topic.
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Remember that for every fascist out there you have half a dozen people really sympathetic to fascism but not quite ready to make that last step, and for every one of those you have a dozen more who are susceptible to being sympathetic to fascism.
Making fascists the victims just all those people a bit closer to the edge.
The other question is what do you really plan to accomplish? No one gets intimidated away from a movement until you start using really extreme levels of violence, most fascists are probably now thinking “ha! let someone try that to me!!”.
Look at what the South needed to repress blacks in the 60s, do you really want to use those levels of violence?
Uhhh, not really.
Canada did some nasty stuff to the natives (which still causes us problems) but we basically just claimed the land and Britain eventually handed us our independence.
India was unified by the East India Company then got its independence through non-violent resistance, African nations by the whims of European mapmakers, and European nations a mix of really old history and cultural lines, etc, etc.
I mean they all have wars in their history, but very few actually came into existence as a result of armed conflict.
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So you’ve delegated the cops to punch the Nazis FOR you.
Behold the fundamental hypocrisy of authoritarian pacifism.
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Tripping on the proposed (punch-free) solutions to manifest white supremacist fascism on American streets:
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happen to be carrying a large piece of cardboard, a box cutter or scissors, and at least one sharpie. Able to whip up a gigantic arrow sign with text while trotting behind a moving nazi.
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a go-go-gadget tuba.
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a majority of the population who would never be beguiled into accepting something as chortlingly idiotic as institutionalized racism.
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superior quotations
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In 1931, after WWI.
