Watch: Bulldog is excited about treat, so he's gotta dance


According to Wikipedia you’ve been told correctly. Lurchers are sight hounds mixed with another breed type. I had the impression ‘Lurcher’ is an old term for sight hounds but seems it’s more complicated. I’ve heard it used for New Zealand pig dogs. They tend to have a lot of greyhound type sight hound in them but it’s hard to say exactly. Like working farm dogs they’re bred for working ability, and not necessarily line bred.

Either way I’m working on a project to do with New Zealand stock herding dogs, not hunting dogs. So I’m not an expert on lurchers as such. I just read a lot about breeds and working dogs for my lit review.


I’m not sure where you learned this definition for ‘farm collie’ but it’s not one I’ve ever heard. Collies are hard to define but they’re more varied than you would think. Look up New Zealand Huntaways. They look nothing like border collies but can probably be classed as collies due to their ancestry and behavioural traits.

I don’t see why anyone would mix pedigree dogs with working dogs when there are plenty of working collies out there that have no trace of show dog in them. Collies have been used as working dogs for centuries and they still are in many places (UK, New Zealand, Australia for example). Some traditional types are only left as pedigree dogs (Old English Sheepdogs, Bearded Collies), Show dog breeds are basically an offshoot from the working dogs and at this point are really separate breeds. If someone wants a working dog why would they get a show dog / working dog mix which is likely to have poorer health and less working ability when they can just get a regular farm working dog? And if the point is that they want a traditional collie type as a pet, then I hope they realize how much work these dogs are and how much stimulation they need.


Its one of the common definitions of a Farm Collie.

It refers to a specific group of farm dogs. Working dogs. With in the hunting type.

Huntaways are like wise not a breed per se. Or weren’t until recently. And certainly seem better defined than a more general type like the farm collie. But they would not be a collie unless they have some lineage from collie types and breeds, and it doesn’t seem they all do. And a key thing with huntaways is that they were developed by cross breeding types and breeds after the idea of breed standard. Likely in part from pure bred or pedigreed dogs.

And if people don’t keep out crossing them, they’ll become just another uncle brother cousin cluster fuck.

The same reason you would mix any dog with any dog. Because they have desirable traits. Its the base function of selective breeding. But its also done to help improve the general health of the breeds being used. Its called out breeding. And its a fairly base concept in animal husbandry. And a key strategy in unfucking pedegreed dogs.

There’s other examples. Like Lurchers and Longdogs.

European hunting dogs created by cross breeding sight hounds. Either two different sight hound breeds. Or out breeding to another type. To create improved coursing dogs, most often for rabbit hunting.

Often times they’re simply defined and highly inbred versions of older working dogs. And surprising number of breeds have very little connection to their supposed ancestor. Having essentially been recreated from out breeding after a historic breed disappeared.

Because they want to or it works better for their needs or those “regular working dogs” no longer exist.

You seem to have gotten hung up on that “show dog” phrase. Few to no people are seeking out pedegreed dogs from actual dog show heritages for this. But that pure bred, pedigreed working dog. That’s actually working. On a farm or as a hunting dog or what have. Has still been bred according to the same breed standards, and is gonna come from the same sort of tracked inbred kennel club heritage. Whether what was tracked is hunting ability, or herding ability, or talent at playing the tin whistle.

Just because you can’t understand why. Doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen. And just because you don’t get it doesn’t mean its not a good thing. Even those working lineages in many dog breeds are loaded with genetic problems and health issues. Out breeding them across distinct lineages is a good thing. It breeds much needed genetic diversity, and it give you the opportunity to select out the problems.


You’re not generally wrong in anything you’re saying. I just hate the whole idea of pedigrees, especially when they are based on looks. I’d much rather we throw out the whole idea about dog breeds and just say that these dogs over here are related and they tend to be pretty good pets or herders or hunters or whatever. Breed for behavioural traits, not because they share the same ancestors or looks. In fact, if they share ancestors, don’t breed them. Utopian, I know.


So do I. But this is how you fix them, a looser definition that out crosses for the dog’s well being or working ability/disposition as needed.

The catch 22 of it is that untracked, unregulated breeding within a breed is just as responsible for the problems with pure bred dogs as the whole pedigree system. You’re neighbor who breeds pure bred labs without papers, or by breeding siblings together is causing a lot more damage than reputable pedigree breeders who actively try to avoid that if possible. Unfortunately the system as it currently stands doesn’t allow (or kindly regard) the former crossing in related or disparate dogs. Or bringing mutts to the party to fix the actual problem, which is all inbreeding and genetic bottle necks. Those extreme aesthetics are almost entirely mutations forced by deliberate inbreeding.


If I could go back in time and prevent the mindset that led to the founding of the Kennel Club I would. They started the whole idea about specified, pedigreed dog breeds. Before that people had dogs and some of them looked similar and did similar jobs and that was all. It’s too late now.


Not so much IIRC. That sort of dog breeding has its roots a bit before established kennel clubs (and there’s a lot more than on kennel clubs). In breeding companion dogs among the wealthy. But from what I understand, the whole pure breed, dog show club thing was directly transposed from dog fighting and pit sports. Basically breeding dogs for hunting and fighting was a gentlemanly activity. And when dog fight and baiting started to get banned. Dog shows replaced them. The activity was breeding the dogs. Something that required space, and money. The purpose of the dogs didn’t matter much so appearance because the new way to judge the success some one had at breeding.

The clubs cropped up because a given breeding line was valuable, and you wanted proof . And you needed standards to judge by. Cropped up for everything from horses to rabbits and sheep at around the same time.


This topic was automatically closed after 5 days. New replies are no longer allowed.