As much as I’m willing to hang myself by saying that male harassment does happen… we need to focus on the more blatant and systemic female harassment that is ‘you are only as good as you are attractive’ society has going on. Doing that probably well help reduce male harassment issues as women stop getting taught hteir identities and self worth are their attractivness thus the use of their sexuality as a lever or the ‘it is the mans fault’ as way to blackmail a SO will reduce.
Hopefully. Even if that is a problem that doens’t go away with proper de objectifying women, we still need to focus on stopping with ‘oh you’re a plus sized girl’ to a girl of a healthy weight.’ or ‘‘you’re OLD we want young talent’ to someone over twenty five.’
we need to do better because right now as a society we kinda suck.
Edit: and ‘america’s top model’ upgraded me from ‘modeling is a thing i dislike for abstract reasons’ and moved me into 'this is an evil industry that fosters sociopathic behavior and saps all empathy from young girls while giving them psychologicla disorders for the sake of being able to more easily photoshop them later because their ribs are sticking out from not eating. Plus modeling and pagents spawn shit like kiddie pagents. I’m sorry but when your industry spawns a pedo paradise? It’s time to reevaluate yourself.
Personally, unpacking the cultural training I received growing up through speaking to my wife (or other women, don’t want to imply a Pence-like rules of engagement here) not only has taken years and years, but it also catches my completely off-guard at times - especially about really hard things to face like a sense of entitlement to sex. Now, in my thirties with a daughter and a wife who has been fired primarily for not behaving enough like a woman these videos are not a shock to me. But sometimes my wife may say something and I get to learn about how many men are obsessed with breast is best, or how many people in general feel compelled to talk to her and my daughter in public about how if our toddler doesn’t stop doing X she won’t get married - experiences I will never have but are daily for them.
Anyhow, basically, if you are told all your life that your power comes from pleasing those in power, the people who manage to gain some power by “working the system” are not all that keen on anyone who seeks to overthrow the power structure.
Agreed. Very disturbing. The kind of job where you’re expected to be “on board” if you expect to keep said job.
My two former painting models related a few stories like this to me, especially about the “bait-and-switch” many photographers try to pull.
The first has moved on to NYC for runway fashion and print work, and I hope it never gets this bad.
The other is a former dancer/dominatrix/print model (adult magazines), and she told me how bad it can be for women who engage in sex work but still should be able to demand some goddamned* respect. One of the worst for her was a husband-wife team where the husband constantly shouted down to and belittled her (the wife/assistant) during the shoot, while at the same time trying to talk my friend into doing more than originally requested for the shoot. This day was the last straw between she and her agent/boyfriend when she realized he wasn’t looking out for her best interests.
*emphasis to relate her exasperation with the ready-packed mysoginy of the industry
Forgiveness is a Big Deal in Catholicism, and so there is a strong bias toward accepting apologies and contrition as genuine and worthy of consideration, even if belated, and even if if may seem disingenuous. It’s a pretty good bias, all told, but it is definitely exploitable by shitbags.
I agree. I think the “That’s Harassment” hashtag is a little strange, as the shocking thing about these videos isn’t that they are considered harassment, it’s that they happen, and that it’s not talked about constantly as a plague on society. If anything harassment is a downgrade from what these really are, sexual assault and/or coercion. A better hashtag might be #thisfuckinghappenslikeinreallifeyouguys. #thatsharassment would fit better with “can’t you take a joke,” “can’t you take a compliment” or “smile” kind of stuff.
And meanwhile, the ad agency for one of the two major supermarket chains here in Australia had to drop its latest ads after staff were harrassed. The (stupid) ads were about staff saying “I’m free” because the supermarket was boasting about having “all available” checkouts open during certain hours in the lead-up to easter. The ads were probably also riffing off that shitty ‘Are you being served’ thing with the gay guy always being ‘free’.
I know the CC is your hobby horse, but this is kind of derailing. If you want to talk about the CC, start a new thread please. This also happens far too often.
It’s an interesting idea to make these videos feel as uncomfortable as these moments actually are, rather than to sexualize them. These are very similar to porn videos, except instead of feeling sexy, it feels like crap to watch these. Which is EXACTLY what it feels like when someone tries to take their fantasy IRL.
Now that I’m a dad, and have a (physically) maturing early-teen daughter, my spidey senses are always on full alert for this kind of behavior toward her by others. She’s definitely still an immature kid and won’t see this coming or know to recognize it, so I’d like to figure out a way to tell her #ThatsHarassment. But she’s not ready to watch these videos. Especially true with the photog telling the model that he’s got a boner in his pants; she doesn’t need to see that yet.
If I was at that shoot, and my daughter was the model, I would have involuntarily started speaking up, talking shit, asking if we’re now morphing into a porn shoot. Yeah, my hackles would be way up. Probably would have costed her her career, but I would not care.
The bartenders, that could be more ubiquitous. I worked in the hospitality industry and I can see this happening all. the. time. And so, I’d want her to know when this is happening and not feel bad about calling it out, telling beanie head to shut the fuck up and keep his hands to himself.
Ugh. Now I’m all fired up again about enrolling her into a street fighting brazilian ju jitsu class.
Obviously you know her better than a random commenter, but I suspect she’s closer to ready than you think. And she’s probably already experienced harassment but may not know what to call it and may believe she bears some of the responsibility. I know I went through that as a young woman, and most (if not all) other women have as well.
This should be uncomfortable to watch, but it could also start the discussion of what to do when (not if, sadly) she finds herself in a similar situation. I learned too late how to see it coming and how to get away from it. But she doesn’t have to.
[quote=“Slartibartfast, post:35, topic:98836, full:true”]And she’s probably already experienced harassment but may not know what to call it and may believe she bears some of the responsibility. I know I went through that as a young woman, and most (if not all) other women have as well.
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A handy piece of advice for parents of all sexes. Turning it on me and making it “my fault” is exactly how my molester made me feel trapped.
The difference is that Cosmo isn’t in a position of immediate power over its readers and it’s not coercing them into doing anything they don’t want to do.
Many people care about their looks, including their butts. Offering workout techniques is no more “sexist crap” than a gym having a Stairmaster is.
I don’t care how good a doctor he is. I no longer feel safe in a room with him, nurse or no. The nurses are scared of doctors, especially the ones who are jerks.
I encourage you to speak openly to your daughter and give her information on how to handle it. It’s really important to let her know that the way these people work is they expect you to keep silent and not confront them. Usually, it’ll stop as soon as you speak up.
I have had so many instances of this stuff happening; usually it’s just the surprise of the situation that made me keep quiet. A lot of times I wasn’t sure exactly whether the person was crossing the line or not.
It’s good to learn to say things like, “I’m not comfortable with what you are doing. Please move your hand.” “I did not agree to do this; here is what is allowed and if you do not comply I will leave.”
It’s important that people understand that their presence is power. Removing their presence is a powerful statement.
It’s also important to raise a kid who feels comfortable speaking to adults and authority figures, so it’s not just giving her some lines to say, but also the comfort to speak against someone in a position of power.
