I wanna preface this first by making sure everyone knows I’m NOT making a comparison of incidents with The Troubles. I don’t want to take away any sense of gravity from that situation.
I just can’t get this one out of my head, it speaks so well to the frustration for both sides to understand how we’ve been, are being, and will be manipulated by those who exploit the people on all fronts for power and profit.
I agree with this goal. However, I do think the context also matters. If she had been alone, arresting her would be appropriate. If it was a mob storming a bank, backing off would make sense. When it is self-proclaimed revolutionaries trying to take the capitol, it’s different. I haven’t fully wrapped my head around it, but that’s how I am feeling right now.
…that the GOP has been racing towards since the late ‘60s.
Loads of the Trumpsurrectionists had firearms. Did you not see the guy with a sidearm and zip cuffs?
What we do know is that Trump blocked the National Guard from being deployed for several hours, until apparently Pence okayed it. The capitol police would normally coordinate with other federal law enforcement groups, but that wasn’t done. This was definitely not a case of feeling the security wasn’t needed - the police didn’t follow standard procedures for dealing with a crowd of this size, much less one that had publicly discussed storming the capitol building and being violent. They made no effort to establish a proper cordon and contain the crowds where they needed to be stopped. The cops aided the rioters (opening barriers to let them inside what should have been a cordoned area, posing for selfies, telling them where offices were so they could vandalize them…). The rioters also included actual police officers.
So really, the only question is whether Trump directly coordinated, directly or indirectly, with the police or just blocked the use of federal forces and capitol police independently, knowing what was going to happen and sympathetic to Trump, deliberately allowed it to happen. Because it sure as hell wasn’t just incompetence.
No, not the actual capitol police (but he does over other federal police, e.g. park police, that should have also been there), but he wouldn’t have to - whatever happened with the capitol police, it wasn’t the result of following (lawful) orders.
She specifically was asking that unidentifiable federal LEOs not be on the streets that would be indistinguishable from the militarized Trump fans, to avoid that sort of chaos.
She foresaw chaos and did request that the situation be treated seriously, and that the National Guard be deployed (which they really weren’t - what ended up on the streets was an insignificantly tiny force). But instead what happened was not just that it wasn’t treated seriously, but that the kinds of forces that normally would be deployed for a normal event of this size simply weren’t. Failing to treat the event seriously enough would be one thing, but this was a level of negligence that has to be deliberate to some degree, and not just on the level of the individual cops seen aiding rioters.
When foreign police in charge of capitol security with identical training and familiarity with procedures say, “The police deliberately botched their response” I’m leaning towards believing them.
That’s not really credible, though, as storming the capitol building was being publicly discussed ahead of time, by quite a lot of people. (Apparently including police, who were there as rioters.) It wasn’t a spontaneous thing, it was discussed and planned. Even if the cops had simply written that off as hot air - despite the history of violence of the group in question - they knew the crowd was going to walk to the capitol building. The capitol police failed to have even a basic cordon around the building, so they couldn’t really stop anyone from getting through. That practically functioned as an invitation to breach the capitol.
Given the over-the-top response to the BLM protests earlier in the year, as well as for Lord Dampnut’s photo op at the church, and the disorganized, tepid response to this event, I don’t think it is a stretch to consider this event to be a coup attempt.
It was known that various groups with histories of violence would be in attendance.
It was known that those groups were spoiling for a fight.
Lord Dampnut’s rhetoric for weeks before the event was well known.
It is also well-known that the LEO community is on very friendly terms with these groups.
There was just enough effort made re: security as to give Plausible Deniability as to their own culpability in the coup… “Well, we tried, but there was just too many of 'em… no one could have predicted the size of the crowd, etc, etc,”
Note, also, that reinforcement by the NG was refused by various officials. Lord Dampnut himself did nothing about it for at least 1 1/2 hours.
This coup attempt so far seems to have failed; we ain’t out of the woods yet. There is talk that they are going to try again on Inaguration Day & will be heavily armed this time.
If so, it’s going to be interesting…
ETA: Looks like Shuck beat me to it.
Well… that sounds like proper gun control to me.
But let’s be frank for a moment; in attempting to break their way into a chamber filled with senior politicians, guarded by armed individuals, what did they think the outcome was going to be?
Although as a song it has nothing whatsoever to do with any of this, the phrase echoing through my mind the past few days is “the church of the poison mind.”
A wink and a nudge, probably.
That Culture Club song has never left the rotation of my playlist, but especially these last 4 years.
45’s Death Cult definitely are devout worshippers there:
1964, Goldwater. Nixon was a pinko commie lefty by comparison.
I made E4 in 14 months. Had I remained an E4 for 14 years of service, I’d be known a total fuckup.
For all we know she could have made E-6 and been busted for something stupid. Also, could have been in a low-density technical MOS with no advancement past E-4. Given her recent history, I’d guess the former.
I read that as “now imagine how much less pleasant this whole thing would’ve been with an armed mob.”
Darwin speaks; I have no tears to shed for this woman.
Having read @Mister44 reply, I actually went and looked at the photos from inside the Capitol and was surprised to see that the rioters weren’t carrying firearms. I guess that, had they come in armed, there would have been a far more forceful response from the defenders. My “gun control” comment was a more general point aimed at America’s gun culture. I feel that if you are buying guns for “personal defence” rather than sport, there is something very basically wrong with your society.
She was not beating down the door, she was in the act of climbing through the broken window, and she was wearing a backpack with who knows what in it. Totally justified shooting in the circumstances.
Sad is the word.
And I feel for her kids.
As a mom, I got my brain partially overwritten by the ancient scope-creep of pregnancy hormones, and I don’t think I’ll ever not think about kids the same way [as I did before pregnancy]. All kids.
I have heard it said often: “children are our future.”
To choose, as a parent, to step into avoidable risk while her kids are still young, still dependent, is a really serious warning sign, as I see it. There’s a world of difference between defending your kids in clear and present danger (bear attack, car collision, armed bad guy) and the choice Ms. Babbit made, whether she anticipated violence or not.
I have heard it also said: “freedom comes with responsibility.”
ETA: clarifier re pre- and post-pregnancy thinking
ETA: grammar and a total lack of coffee 
ETA3:
Ok, completely confused her with someone else in the news.
She had no kids. That’s the good news, I guess.
ETA4 (of a series, probably): very sleep-deprived over here
DC has much stricter gun laws than most of the nation, so you can’t legally open carry a long arm, for an example.
If there were armed protestors in the crowd, they kept them concealed. A quick search shows that 5 or 6 weapons were found. I found one source claiming 4 handguns with out a licenses arrests were made. I know I read about some pipe bombs and Molotov cocktails found.
At least in this instance, it appears gun control worked, as the vast majority of people willfully obeyed the law and left them at home. (Or kept them concealed… who knows how many had stuff in back packs, etc.)
So… good.
