Where it all went wrong for the Fedora

[anon73629133]

I applaud your parenting.

[CaptainPedge]

While your daughter was suspended, how many themeparks and movies did you take her to as a reward?

[FoolishOwl]

Sigh I love Fedora Linux. But… the name.

(Also the security subsystem designed by the NSA. That kinda worries me.)

[FoolishOwl]

@popobawa4u

Might it also be naive to assume that articles of clothing could communicate anything without tremendous ambiguity?

Might it also be naive to assume that any communication can be free of ambiguity? I think that’s part of the reason we tend to communicate in more ways than one at once: redundancy, as a way to limit ambiguity.

[popobawa4u]

There might be a huge range between “any ambiguity” and “tremendous ambiguity”. If people were interested in limiting ambiguity I would suppose they might not fall back upon clothing choices. They are symbolic, but with no semantic value. One could just as well wear Rorschach blots and ask people to free-associate.

[Mister44]

OH hey - straw fedoras. I do have a couple of those for like Florida or other super sunny spots.

[devophill]

My ignored comment goes here: I’m a longshoreman, so I wear a longshoreman’s cap:

[FoolishOwl]

@popobawa4u

They are symbolic, but with no semantic value.

That doesn’t even make sense. If they don’t have a semantic value, they’re not symbols.

The meaning of a word is its use.

@popobawa4u

One could just as well wear Rorschach blots and ask people to free-associate.

The meaning can be ambiguous. It’s not random.

The article points out the interesting historical origin of the name, fedora: it was the name of a character acted by Sandra Bernhardt, and so became a symbol of feminist reappropriation of a masculine signifier. Many decades later, the PUA subculture adopted the use of the fedora as a symbol of reclaiming masculinity. These are contradictory meanings for a symbol, but obviously related, not random.

[Gyrofrog]

Yes, yes, and no. The latter would ruin my hats. You could add cold to that list.

[Gyrofrog]

@Donald_Petersen

aren’t really representative of fedora wearers who have worn fedoras (and properly respected women) for a pretty long time (albeit not as long as Burroughs).

As much as I always liked reading Uncle Bill, I would not use his name in the same sentence as “properly respected women.”

But speaking of Burroughs, note that he’s also wearing a three-piece suit with his fedora. I recall other BB threads suggesting that the fedora really needs a nice outfit to go with it, not e.g. cargo pants and a t-shirt. But I have, and wear, a couple of brim hats, while I put on a suit maybe once or twice a year.

@Donald_Petersen

I won’t wear a bucket hat.

I have a leather one from Wilson’s. I bought it when I was about 30, but after a year or two I figured “who am I trying to fool?” If the fedora doesn’t go as well with casual clothes, then I think the leather bucket hat is the opposite – I’m too dressed up for that hat, and that’s saying a lot (i.e. merely a button-up shirt tucked into jeans). But part of me says I should just wave my freak flag high and wear it anyway. (Last time it was worn at all, was a few months ago – my son wore it to school for Crazy Hat Day.)

[Gyrofrog]

@Donald_Petersen

I won’t wear a straw boater unless I’m issued a cane and copious tapdancing lessons.

Part of me says that presidential candidates should be judged on if/how they can carry off a boater with red-white-and-blue hatband, plus sleeve garters. Unfortunately (depending on your politics), based on this criterion, it would have placed Ron Paul way in the lead.

[PhasmaFelis]

@fiddlingfrog

Quick poll: for those who do wear brimmed hats, why do you wear them? Fashion? Sun? Inclement weather?

I’m gonna buck the trend and say “fashion.” I’ve got a nice, properly-sized black felt fedora that I wear along with a nice shirt and tie when I feel like dressing up a little. I look good in it, and I don’t mean “I think I look good in it,” I mean “I get compliments from random strangers of both genders.”

If somebody decides I must be a dirtbag because of my choice of hat, good. I’d rather not waste my time talking to judgmental dicks.

Edit: My one concession to the the PUA-fedora hate is that these days I’m quite careful about the rest of my wardrobe when I put on my fedora. I would never have worn it with, like, a T-shirt, but now more than ever I feel like I should do my part to re-associate fedoras with “good fashion sense.” I’M TAKIN’ IT BACK

[PhasmaFelis]

@Ryuthrowsstuff

For every one dismissing the article because it simply recounts the very real backlash against fedoras of a few years back, that was an actual thing. And as silly of an approach as it was it was a response to a real and very weird situation.

I certainly believe that all this happened, and I’m willing to extend some understanding for the people it happened to, but I’d bet that 95%+ of the fedora-haters out there have never actually seen a human being acting like a douche while wearing a fedora. All they know is that strangers on the internet told them to hate fedoras, so they do. I can’t respect that at all.

(Case in point: it took 84 posts for someone to tell this story. You’re the first person in the thread who actually saw it first-hand.)

[heckblazer]

Whatever the heck you want to call A&F’s target market for the last 20 years, I’m certain my grandfather was not in it. Most especially because he’s been dead for 20 years.

[Donald_Petersen]

@Gyrofrog

As much as I always liked reading Uncle Bill, I would not use his name in the same sentence as “properly respected women.”

Poor sentence construction on my part. He did wear those hats for a long time, but those parentheticals should stand independent of each other.

[Donald_Petersen]

@Gyrofrog

based on this criterion, it would have placed Ron Paul way in the lead.

Still, Hillary’d give him a run for his money. She could totes pull off that look.

[Ryuthrowsstuff]

Well I’d assume there’s a bit of selection bias on that. People who like brim hats being more likely to post. But I think there are bigger reasons. For one I typed up that post on my phone at work. I was a bit busy slinging drinks so it took be more than 4 hours to type up. But more importantly both the massive fedora fad, and the backlash against it are both over. (As is what was a surprisingly big boom for the whole pickup artist thing). I doubt anyone IRL is going to assume you’re a terrible person based on wearing a particular hat these days. And frankly it was probably unlikely in most places and situations even when the fedora hate was strongest. The hat, and by extension other brim hats, is no longer as fashionable as it was a few years back. No longer trendy enough to be worn universally, with little thought, and in all situations (the way a baseball hat might be). At this point its just another lazy internet meme. Which is what I’d expect, focusing on the hats was silly and pointless. And there a ton of other reasons the fad dropped off (its sort of what fads do). Meanwhile the hipsters all got into fixies and 80’s neon, and the sort of heinous 4chan creature everyone was really mad at moved on to create Gamergate and swatting.

But like I said in my other comment, I regularly wear brim hats at the beach and other outdoor situations. And they tend to be exactly the sort of straw (or paper) trilbies everyone as mad at (these things are cheap! And look decent on me). I never catch guff for it. And never did straight through the whole backlash. I have a few friends who just ignored the whole thing and kept wearing the damn things anyway. Few of them caught shit anything more than a few times out in the world, and being actual human beings said shit was easily diffused and entirely situational. This was largely an internet bound bit of weird. Spurred on by some negative real world experiences in a fairly limited area and time, and among a fairly limited group of people.